sidespin myths

[trains]

That's exactly what I was saying mate. Just that you were talking about aiming from the object ball's perspective, and I was thinking about it from the white ball's perspective.
Hence the initial confusion.

I get your rift,I've been posting on the net since 01,I still think its all a bit Stephen Hawkins, Rainman etc

[JayDee]

I'm surprised at most of the replies...

Pros very often DO use side, but 90% of the time its "trace side", this is the really beneficial part of using side.

Contrary to peoples posts, you don't need to adjust your line for playing with these shots at all.
You just have to play very smoothly through the ball, the key being acceleration is needed and you can generate great positional play through this. The moment you start to jab, or punch the ball, it will throw it way off.

Example;
Imagine you play a swerve shot; that is with alot of extreme side, the cue ball goes off line quite an amount. You would often "jab" at this shot to impact the cue ball to move off the line (to avoid a snooker etc).
Remember, aiming for the big part of the pocket will usually give you enough room for error.

When you see the player use an extreme amount of side, all sorts of things can go wrong with the line of the shot and judging etc, hence pros very rarely will do a pot in such a manner.

[T.C.]

Side has absolutley no effect on the angle of deflection of the cueball after it has made contact with the object ball until it hits a cushion.
So if your not coming off a cushion theres no point applying any side, your just making the pot more missable.

[hotpot]

Side has absolutley no effect on the angle of deflection of the cueball after it has made contact with the object ball until it hits a cushion.
So if your not coming off a cushion theres no point applying any side, your just making the pot more missable.

Dont think i quite agree with that side is still used on stun and screw positional shot to widen or narrow angles , even when you dont use the cush .

[Giggity1984]

Side has absolutley no effect on the angle of deflection of the cueball after it has made contact with the object ball until it hits a cushion.

Playing a swerve shot certainly does deflect the curve balls path, thus the name!

If, as you suggest, side had no impact, how would you swerve around a ball?! Cos striking at 6 0 clock on the white will just jump it! It's the side that "gets it round"!

It used to be believed that side doesn't deflect the cue ball or have any impact on the object ball, you can see this demonstrated in Steve Davis's The Champions Way where he gets a striped pool ball and plays a shot with extreme side and the stripe remains straight.

I think it's been dis-proven now though. A google search will reveal this. LHS on the CB transfers to the OB and the OB will start to spin as if RHS is applied to it.

[stjimmy18-1991]

side does nothing severely noticable to the cue ball until it hits a cushion. it most likley does swerve it fractionally, but not enough to be deliberatley played, AFTER IT HITS THE OBJECT BALL.

when playing with side, you can adjust both thinner or thicker for the same shot, all depending on the power. if you play with hard right hand side, the cue ball will shoot left before the side grips the white and swerves back towards the object ball. if you play the same shot alot slower, it will swerve a heck of alot more to the right.

[magicman]

side does nothing severely noticable to the cue ball until it hits a cushion

Side has absolutely no effect on the angle of deflection of the cueball after it has made contact with the object ball until it hits a cushion.

This idea has been posted quite a few times and I've just picked the latest occurrences as quotes, so nothing personal T.C and stjimmy.

It's completely and totally wrong!

Position using side - without cushions - is used by better players all the time. This can be shown if you give yourself a little angle on the black and screw it in with alot of side you can get the cue ball to hit the cush near to the middle pocket where a direct screw would hit the cushion lower than the pink spot.

[Krypton]

You all don't read carefully enough!!!!


It was ONLY about the angle of deflection the cue ball gets off the object ball. No swerve, no transferred side, just the angle the cue ball initially takes when rolled on and off an object ball at moderate pace.

and this one is, indeed NOT affected in a way you could take advantage off.


It IS possible to 'widen' the angle or, more likely to be useful, tighten it - but playing this type of shot, the effect comes from the nap of the cloth and the rotation the cue ball still has after the contact. The original post still stands!

[Terry Davidson]

Sidespin has no effect on the object ball at all unless the balls are very dirty and there's a opportunity for the cueball to 'grip' the object ball.

As to the one poster who said pros use trace amounts of sidespin all the time and the other poster who said he widens the angle off the black I will reply like this.

Pros avoid the use of side as much as they can and will never use it if they have a choice. Of course sometimes they get a little bit on UNINTENTIONAL side, which is a technique problem.

Regarding the angle of throw off the black. OF COURSE you are going to get a different angle of throw off the black if you use siding, but it's not because of any effect other than you have to change your aiming line for the cue and thus your angle of attack (the angle the cueball approaches the object ball) is different when you use side. Why do you think you adjust your aim...because you throw the cueball in the opposite direction to the type of siding applied.

I have seen a domonstration using a 3/4 blue ball pot using centre-ball and then extreme siding and marking the line of the cueball. Believe me there is a very slight difference in the line the cueball takes off the blue ball. It came out to just under 2 inches over a 4ft travel. If any of you are good enough to judge your position consistently to within 2 inches after a cueball travel of 4ft then by all means use extreme side to adjust that line.

For me however, I think I'll stick to not making the pot more complicated by using side and I avoid it as much as I possibly can

Terry

[Krypton]

Sidespin has no effect on the object ball at all unless the balls are very dirty and there's a opportunity for the cueball to 'grip' the object ball.

I don't agree - side can be used to make balls that would not be on using a plain ball pot without side. and this is NOT because of the cue ball arching around an obstructing ball - it's really because of the throw of the object ball. Or do you think this is not the case?

Pros avoid the use of side as much as they can and will never use it if they have a choice. Of course sometimes they get a little bit on UNINTENTIONAL side, which is a technique problem.

The original questioning poster also asked whether there were pros that put side on every shot. And there are. They do so because they've been doing so since learning snooker. I know players who play every single ball with a trace of running side.
I do NOT pretend that is a good thing to do, and I would always tell a beginner to start (and use) plain ball striking to pot, without the running side. But still, there are players with this habit.

OF COURSE you are going to get a different angle of throw off the black if you use siding, but it's not because of any effect other than you have to change your aiming line for the cue and thus your angle of attack (the angle the cueball approaches the object ball) is different when you use side.

Now this I just cannot believe. I'm referring to this specific part:

the angle the cueball approaches the object ball is different when you use side.

Maybe you mean the correct thing, but it's described in a mistakable way. The angle the cue ball approaches the object ball can only be the same for every successful pot if you think side won't affect the object ball. otherwise the pot would fail.

[hotpot]

Check side will cause the object ball to straighten up and running side vice versa

[cox orange pippin]

How about no less an authority than 6-time world champion Steve Davis? Start watching at 4:48:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz8hw...eature=related

He clearly states that you must adjust your aim when using side because the cue ball is thrown off line by using side. I think it's in Part 4 (I can't get it to load from youtube right now) where he dispells the common myth that spin on the cue ball is imparted to the object ball. He does so using striped pool balls that clearly show rotation. None of the spin is imparted to the object ball.

As an aside, the Steve Davis Champions Way series is very much worth watching, imo.

[Terry Davidson]

krypton:

When you are trying to use side to make an object ball you can't 'see' in a direct straight line to pot it then if it's just a slight cover then you use siding.

The only point on the object ball where it can be contacted and potted is 'BOB' or a spot on the object ball directly opposite the part of the pocket you need to hit.

What you are doing with the side is initially pushing the cueball off the line of aim and then arcing it back into BOB, in otherwords like a micro-swerve. Of course you arc the ball, as how else do you get it back to BOB.

I understand what you are saying, which is the point of contact on the object ball is now different because of the side and is no long BOB.

Sorry, but that is incorrect and if you have some time and access to a set of American pool balls and a snooker table I will give you a very easy test to try off the blue spot and you will see there is no spin imparted to the object ball, just as Mr. Davis shows on YouTube

Let me know if you want to try the proof routine, but it takes a little patience and time. Works better with 2 people too.

Terry

[TheRowdyOne]

i know 9 balls are bigger but i saw this ages ago and thought it might stir up some people....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGXUld5A24

[vmax4steve]

krypton:

When you are trying to use side to make an object ball you can't 'see' in a direct straight line to pot it then if it's just a slight cover then you use siding.

The only point on the object ball where it can be contacted and potted is 'BOB' or a spot on the object ball directly opposite the part of the pocket you need to hit.

What you are doing with the side is initially pushing the cueball off the line of aim and then arcing it back into BOB, in otherwords like a micro-swerve. Of course you arc the ball, as how else do you get it back to BOB.Terry

Absolutely spot on Terry, side cannot be transmitted between two such highly polished surfaces as there is practically zero friction. The object ball isn't thrown at all, the cue ball takes a different path because not only is it coming off the object ball at a different angle to a plain ball shot, but also the action of the side spin on the nap of the cloth makes the cue ball arc.
This is the reason why some shots can be made playing side even though the cue ball doesn't hit a cushion, happens in billiards all the time when playing cannons.