back to basics: (notably) blacks off the spot

[jonnylovessn8ker]

my game has been suffering lately due to lack of play.

so i have been focusing on
1. screw back
2. stun
3. blacks off the spot.

with blacks off the spot, i'm struggling with getting over 9 in a row
2 questions:
1. i have tendency to over-cut in this particular practice. is it something to do with my line of aim/view of object ball?
2. could you guys share your story of how you got to improve your blacks off the spot training, so i can gain a bit of inspiration?

[thinsy]

I don't know if it'll be inspiring or not but I used to have a routine I used to do when practicing potting off the black spot:

I would mark up the table (using some small round stickers) a full ball, 3/4 ball, 1/2 ball, 1/4 ball shots (high and low of the spot) on both sides of the table and played them, not moving on to another one until i'd potted 50 in a row on each spot!!! Some days it took endless hours.... Other days it took longer!!!!!

[Terry Davidson]

jonny:

The way to overcome your problem of over cutting is to stay down on the shot after the delivery and at the end of the delivery and observe where the black hits the knuckle, but with your eyes only...don't move your head at all.

This is the feedback the brain will require to correct it next time.

Also, a lot of players on this type of shot will get down on the correct line of aim and then mak little micro-adjustments by moving their hips and back while they are down on the shot as it looks to them they are cutting it too thick. A player will always select the best line of aim from when he is standing up behind the shot as that's where you get the best perspective of the angle of the pot. Once you're down on the table don't move at all.

Terry

[damienlch]

hi jonny, correct me if i am wrong, but i believe you are referring to cutting into a blind pocket... i used to struggle on such shots too... in fact, i am still struggliing but thanks to some kind advice (a thousand apologies, i forgot from whom... ) , i am improving...

it's a bit difficult to put the technique into words but i shall try:

1. approach the potting angle square on.
2. get top down onto the shot, i.e. do not "slide in" sideways.
3. when getting down on your shot, keep your head up for a moment and maintain the potting angle in sight.
4. consciously put your head down onto your cue without changing the angle that you sighted.
5. proceed to feather and cut the object ball with a smooth, easy stroke.

you may find the potting angle different from what you were used to but the trick is to stick with this "new" potting angle...

i believe this technique works because you can gauge where the pocket is better with your head slightly higher up as compared to when you are already down on the shot.

in fact, i found my overall potting has improved and can achieve better consistency with this technique.

hope this helps you somewhat...

cheers...

[hotpot]

Blacks off the spot are one of my favourite routines . I find that taking a breather and wiping your cue every five pots or so reall helps with your focus and concentration .

[damienlch]

Blacks off the spot are one of my favourite routines . I find that taking a breather and wiping your cue every five pots or so reall helps with your focus and concentration .

i agree...i tend to lose focus after playing for awhile, especially when practising alone... that's usually a cue for me take a small break and come back refreshed.

[jonnylovessn8ker]

thanks terry.

really appreciate the advices, its working quite well. just a follow up

so theres a tendency where the ball keeps hitting the far jaw, (or the one that is attached to the side). i'm very sure my line of aim is correct, so that leaves it to me stance, which is changed because of where i am cuing from.

i suppose there isnt another way to fix this problem, besides brute force practicing?

i'm asking because im sure there are other situations where i will have to position myself in a stance that is unusual to my normal(comfortable) stance. i'd like to find a way to train myself to avoid missing pots like that.

and to everyone, thank you for your advice

to hotpot:

you're damn straight right. blacks off the spot is classic. its like scrambled eggs.

[thinsy]

Blacks off the spot are one of my favourite routines . I find that taking a breather and wiping your cue every five pots or so reall helps with your focus and concentration .

When potting continuous blacks of its spot got a bit boring i'd liven up my routine and do something completely different....... I'd pot some pinks of the pink spot!!!!

[Gerry Armstrong]

jonny:
Also, a lot of players on this type of shot will get down on the correct line of aim and then mak little micro-adjustments by moving their hips and back while they are down on the shot as it looks to them they are cutting it too thick. A player will always select the best line of aim from when he is standing up behind the shot as that's where you get the best perspective of the angle of the pot. Once you're down on the table don't move at all.

Terry

Thanks for this tip Terry. I was playing in a tournament yesterday and had missed a few easy balls and I noticed myself doing this a lot on shots I wasn't 100% sure of. I stopped doing it and my pot success rate on pots I wasn't that sure of went up quite significantly.

[Luke Hooper]

i tell you what i think blacks off the spot..should be the bread and butter shot for every player..

it NORMALLY is for me, at any angle, however, on my clubs table... (now i dont want to make excuses but i genuinely do think this is hte reason)...the pockets are definitely tight, (star table esque).. but hte main thing is we have recently changed to energy efficient lightbulbs, and ill be honest, they are rubbish..if im dead in line with the black... (standard half ball cut) running parallell to top cushion in line with black, i just CANNOT pot that ball...i practiced before the pink ribbon tournament on our table and potted 1/10..that is awful right?..

well, on the pink ribbon star tables (beautiful tables, great lighting) i potted every black i went for...cut backs, everything.. and thats usually the same result on any other table..i honestly think its the lighting causing me problems on that table.., to test this theory, i used the yellow ball and a series of other reds (because i was too lazy to pick the yellow out the pocket again) and managed 15 in a row before i stopped, then i picked up the black, put it on the spot and missed by almost a foot...

frustrating game.

[Terry Davidson]

jonny:

I think you are doing something terribly wrong as you state you are altering your stance for some shots. I cannot think of any cut-back shot on the black where you should alter your stance at all. Are you doing this because the cueball is down towards the top cushion and you have less cue out over the table or is it the other way around and you are cueing using the cushion as your bridge and having more cue hanging out there?

One golden rule...FOR EVERY HAND ON THE TABLE SHOT YOUR STANCE SHOULD BE IDENTICAL!!! (No exceptions)

After all, consistency is the key to improvement at snooker, or indeed any ball sport. Why make it more difficult by changing the parameters on every shot? That just doesn't make any sense at all.

Secondly, if you are continuously hitting the side jaw (and missing the pot)this means you are under-cutting the black as it should hit the INSIDE of the side jaw. I can tell you absolutely your line of aim for the cue is NOT correct or else you are not delivering the cue straight. Remember the black off the spot is a pot to a partially closed pocket and you have to be pretty accurate to pot it consistently. Your point of aim should be the edge of the leather where it meets the inside of the side jaw.

Terry

[ccfook2123]

i think browns or pinks off the spot are much more harder then black off the spot

[Terry Davidson]

ccfook:

If you think that browns and pinks off their spots are more difficult than the black off its own spot then you are really fooling yourself.

Browns and pinks are played to wide open pockets where you have around 83mm opening and lots of room for a little error. On the other hand the black is played to a partially closed pocket with a lot less room for error and also you can't aim the black at the back of the pocket since the top cushion knuckle is in the way.

The degree of difficulty in a pot can be judged by two things. The first is distance and the second is the aspect of the pocket (either closed or open).

How hard is it to pot a ball 1cm from the side cushion down 5-1/2ft to a top pocket with the cueball somewhere in baulk? I believe this must be the hardest shot on the table with the exception of placing the cueball tight on the cushion and trying the same type of shot.

Terry

[jonnylovessn8ker]

hi terry,

sorry for the confusion. i did not clarify myself well enough

there are situations where the cueball has ended up in awkward positions where my normal stance cannot be used.
ie. the cue ball has gone up high on the table, it is opposite side of the table, which in uncomfortable for me because i am right handed. potting the black is a very thin cut. so i may have to lean against the table.

do you have any advice ensure that, in awkward situations like this, your stance remain the way you "eye"/line up the sighting? are there particular practices for this?

many thanks.

[ccfook2123]

i dont know but, i can do 7 blacks in a row, but only 3 browns the max, i gave this opinion after i tried it many times with my ability....
i tried not to put the white ball straight with object ball for 1st ball, i play for black, it is much more easier for me to get position for the black, but not the brown and pink, most of the time if i pot the ball, my white ball will out of position, if i get position, then i couldnt pot the ball
i understand what you said, but my situation is not like that lol