using side when not necessary

[Mick Dundee]

I quite often play with side to pot straight balls when i need some lateral movement on the white
I agree that its just the throw of the object ball that gets the movement,but there is a small amount of movement to be had with the ball still hitting the middle of the pocket
I use it mostly on straight pots to the middles where playing to the side of the pocket could
mean the ball jawing and coming back out
there is only a slight gain to be had as if you try to move the white too much you will miss yhe pot
I started trying it after seeing steve davis do it on tv about 25 years ago
and not believing it tried it myself and still do it to this day

[Acrowot]

On dead straight shots where you strike the object ball perfectly centrally then however much side spin you put onto the cue-ball will have no effect on the direction of the cue-ball (proved in Nic Barrow's DVD).

Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...#ixzz0sLyHxqLe
TSF - TheSnookerForum.com

bongo,

Then you have not seen one of Nic Barrow's latest DVD's
:snooker:

[bongo]

bongo,

Then you have not seen one of Nic Barrow's latest DVD's
:snooker:

I do have most of Nic Barrow's books and DVDs but if you are talking about this new DVD then, yes, I will be buying it sometime in the future. I can't really see Nic teaching something which contradicts what was said in one of his other DVDs.

bongo

[Acrowot]

Well I do have and it is in there.

Find the youtube video of Steve Davis and you will ACTUALLY see that it is not possible.

I will have to try and find it again. He demonstrates it with balls, so you can see that it DOES NOT transfer.
:snooker:

[Quackers]

During safety play side can be very useful. If hitting one or two cushions on the way back to baulk side will widen the angle of the cue ball (thereby missing the blue on the way back, for instance). When not hitting a cushion you can use side on slow shots against the nap to "bend" the white so that it ends up behind a baulk colour that it would otherwise have hit. For that you need to use the opposite side than you would think. eg to bend the white to the left you would use right hand side - not left.

[Terry Davidson]

quackers:

The problem I have with your last comment is that you didn't qualify it to the skill level of the player involved. Players who do not have regular 50+ breaks should not be experimenting with side at all, even in safety play.

Take a look at Mark King's safety game as he uses side on almost every safety shot and frankly suffers as a consequence, so even at his skill level side over distance is a dangerous thing however if a player has ambitions to become a pro then it's one he must master with practice and experience.

Terry

[AndyG]

Unfortunately, a lot of players (some of them very good) believe side is transferred to the object ball and obviously Willie Thorne is one of them.

Terry

There's been a lot of confusion in this thread caused by people switching between two distinct topics - one being the (very odd) claim that side can be transferred from cue ball to object ball and the other being that side can alter the path that the cue ball takes after contact with the object ball.

At no point in the linked video does Willie Thorne claim that side is transferred to the object ball, but he does claim that the side helps with the position of the white.

While, in pure physics terms, Nic Barrow's experiments might show that the effect of side on the cue ball's path after contact is small (yet not quite negligible), the more significant fact (as Bongo points out) is that you have to change the potting angle slightly when you apply the side. In the example Willie plays a fuller pot on the pink when he uses the right hand side, so the white comes back more easily. He might not be a physicist, but he certainly knows how to get the balls to do what he wants!

[bongo]

He might not be a physicist, but he certainly knows how to get the balls to do what he wants!

Good point Andy.

[Krypton]

There's been a lot of confusion in this thread caused by people switching between two distinct topics - one being the (very odd) claim that side can be transferred from cue ball to object ball and the other being that side can alter the path that the cue ball takes after contact with the object ball.

At no point in the linked video does Willie Thorne claim that side is transferred to the object ball, but he does claim that the side helps with the position of the white.

While, in pure physics terms, Nic Barrow's experiments might show that the effect of side on the cue ball's path after contact is small (yet not quite negligible), the more significant fact (as Bongo points out) is that you have to change the potting angle slightly when you apply the side. In the example Willie plays a fuller pot on the pink when he uses the right hand side, so the white comes back more easily. He might not be a physicist, but he certainly knows how to get the balls to do what he wants!

Thank you for this Post.

When ever a "side related" topic is discussed, and someone mentions or asks for effects side might have on the cueball path, there comes up the "There is no Side transferred to the object ball army". Which is NOT the actual topic.

An effect I mentioned in another thread already: Side might help move the cueball even on a stun shot, played on an old cloth with heavy nap.

[vmax4steve]

There is a lot of confusion about the effects of side on the object ball, but the reality is that it's the cue ball that's affected by side.
What Willie Thorne is doing in playing the pink with right hand side is making the cue ball approach the pink from a very slightly different direction.
Because the cue ball is carrying right hand side, it first moves out to the left, which is why the shot must be aimed thicker than a plain ball shot. If played very hard the cue ball will hit the pink and stay on line, but if played less than very hard the cue ball will start to come back to the right from the left thus approaching the pink from a different direction and making a wider angle off the pink after contact.
Add to this the effect of side on the cloth and the physics of inertia on a spinning cue ball milliseconds after contacting another, and angles can be put onto otherwise straight shots.
Try Thornes shot for yourself by aiming the pink to hit the near jaw with varying degrees of side and pace and see the different angles that the cue ball takes after contact.

[cantpotforshíte]

There is a lot of confusion about the effects of side on the object ball, but the reality is that it's the cue ball that's affected by side.
What Willie Thorne is doing in playing the pink with right hand side is making the cue ball approach the pink from a very slightly different direction.
Because the cue ball is carrying right hand side, it first moves out to the left, which is why the shot must be aimed thicker than a plain ball shot. If played very hard the cue ball will hit the pink and stay on line, but if played less than very hard the cue ball will start to come back to the right from the left thus approaching the pink from a different direction and making a wider angle off the pink after contact.
Add to this the effect of side on the cloth and the physics of inertia on a spinning cue ball milliseconds after contacting another, and angles can be put onto otherwise straight shots.
Try Thornes shot for yourself by aiming the pink to hit the near jaw with varying degrees of side and pace and see the different angles that the cue ball takes after contact.

This effect (of the cueball approaching the object ball at a different angle) is what makes the most difference to the path that the cueball takes after it has hit the object ball, and it's rarely mentioned, so thanks for that vmax4steve.
It might be a bad habit, but club players do it all the time around the reds and black, to steal a bit of angle without pinching a bit of the pocket.
The effect is so pronounced that it's possible to pot a perfectly straight blue in the centre of the middle bag, with the white ball say 18" away from the blue, and leave the white ball on the black cushion, just by cueing down a bit with side and swerving the cue ball (ever so slightly) into the blue.
But it may be the thicker cloths on the club tables that allow such a difference, and like I say, it's a bad habit and we might well look silly trying such stuff on a cloth that the pro's play on - I think we'd get found out