Accelerate or constant cue delivery speed?

[damienlch]

hi peeps, was wondering if anyone can offer some advice on this...

i was told that right after taking the final backswing pause, one should start the cue delivery slow then accelerate through the cueball.

yet another guy advised me to keep the speed of the cue delivery constant.

the former seems kind of contrived and it's difficult to gauge how slow to start before accelerating whereas the latter is more straightforward, i.e. pause and punch through with the speed that you have pre-determined necessary for the shot.

which is correct? ...

[cantpotforshíte]

According to the laws of physics, you have to accelerate after the rear pause, or the cue wouldn't move at all

Most people advocate that the cue is still accelerating as it contacts the cue ball. Doing this with a loose grip will let the cue tip be in contact with the cueball for a split second longer, and will give you plenty of cue power.

Players tend to play better, look better, sound better and get better results when they accelerate through the cueball. This is what most peole mean when they say that a player is 'timing his shots well'. Positional play requires less effort when you accelerate through the cue ball.

Try to get it drilled in to your playing style do you don't have to think about it.

[Izzyfcuk]

None is correct.

What suits you is the one that is correct

[saddler79]

Cue should be accelerating through the ball and maximum acceleration should be at the point of impact. This is my understanding of good timing. This shouldnt be a concious visible jerky motion but fine tuned and achieved through lots of practice. This in my opinion is one of the harder aspects of the game and why most amateurs, including myself, struggle to find consistency with deep screw or follow shots.

This law applies to many sports. For example, for any golfers out there you know what happens when you quit on your shots or on the putting green. Things get ugly.

[Terry Davidson]

The easiest way to think about it is like an airplane taking off down the runway. I accelerates contantly until it builds up its speed to take off speed which yoiu can consider the contact of the cueball.

A lot of players try to accelerate the cue too quickly and this leads to a jerky start to their delivery and most likely a tightening of the grip too soon in the delivery which results in the cue actually decelerating as it strikes the cueball and this in turn leads to lots of body movement at the time of strike.

Just like you would start out in a car too...too fast acceleration results in spinning the tires and going nowhere and leaving a few pounds worth of tire rubber on the pavement. Whereas if you give the mass of the car time to build up a little speed it is much easier.

With your cue that constant and steady acceleration leads to much better accuracy and much better cueball control.

Think SMOOTH acceleration

Terry

[damienlch]

thanks for the great advice, guys... they've helped clear my doubts on this aspect of the game... and that's already half the battle won.

and terry... you have been most generous sharing your knowledge and expertise with us in this forum... what would we do without your elucidation... very much appreciated... thank you!!

[The Doctor]

A cue action is very similar to a golf swing. Think about the top of the back-swing as the same as the pause at the end of the back-swing.
From a stopping point the action will accelerate to a point where it reaches maximum speed(the contact point) and it will continue through to an end point.
It can also be similar to a swing in a play park. If you raise the swing to the top and stop, then let it go, it will reach its maximum speed at it lowest point, try to imagine the cue action in these terms, the contact point being the maximum speed.
Of course the speed will be determined by the distance between the point of stopping(pause) and the contact point.
Inmy opinion, you should be striving for a constant cue speed, by that i mean, using the same pushing force on almost all the shots. I say almost all because you will obviously use very little force on a very soft shot but you could say that all shots between say 20-100% will use the same forward force, the only difference being the length of back-swing.
There are some exceptions to this technique, like John Higgins and Steven McGuire, who both tend to alter the speed of follow through but use a constant length of back-swing. This is very difficult to master and not a technique to be taught.
Steve Davis has probably one of the most consistent methods by using the appropriate length of back-swing per power required and has a constant follow through force(cue speed).
These are only my opinions and i at the end of the day its will always come down to player preference, but i know what method is easier to use and to teach.

[Ikraam]

hi, you're right about the 1st 1 seeming contrived. I've found the 2nd method gives me more consistent shots

[Terry Davidson]

Doc:

I agree with everything you've said, especially regarding having a long backswing (but different acceleration) for every shot. Mark Selby along with Higgins and Maguire are very good examples of this but as you say it is VERY hard to master and I think it's possible only if a youngster learned that way and it became natural. I've tried it and I end up all over the place and my rhythm is shot.

The only clarification I would offer is a player should always use the same acceleration for every shot but lengthen the backswing for more power which allowes the cue to accelerate over more distance and thus attains a higher speed at the contact point.

A lot of players make the mistake (when applying a lot of power) to bring the cue back a good length and then accelerate right from the rear pause but then the brain tells them the cue is really moving fast and they end up gripping the butt of the cue too soon and too tight, which actually causes deceleration at the time of strike and less screw or less power.

Terry

[renniwevarb]

Another school of thought would be to adjust your bridging distance for long, medium and short pots, but can anyone offer some advice as to whether this is considered sound?

I've been considering adapting this to my game, as I'm 'overhauling' my stroke so to speak: to really slow down my back swing, have a steadier back pause, and the firm accelerating delivery as discussed in this thread.

You'll be really surprised if you took videos of yourself doing it... to my surprise my back swing looks so much faster than what I think I've been doing, even though I've tried to tell myself to slow it down a lot! (I compared mine with Stephen Maguire's... it is a good comparison to show you how much the back swing speed differs.) And even my rear pause, I thought I was like having a pause a little over 1 second, when actually it's so fast it seems like less than 0.5 seconds in the video!) Sorry for digressing but just wanna share my surprising discovery of what I'm actually doing compared to what I think I'm doing.

So any thoughts on the bridging distance? My friend is advising me to shorten my bridging distance amongst the reds for better control, but what I felt when trying that was the change in my cue balance which isn't really very comfortable.

[Izzyfcuk]

Johm

Remember that i told u about my cueing problem.

Think i solved it. What i did was to move my hand inner to the cue instead of the standard address position(i have about 4 inch left on the butt now). You have seen me do it previously where everything was very compact. Now im using it again.

Pros versus the "model" method advocated by books and stuffs is that when i do my backswing i realised that i no longer have ANY TENSION in my "triceps' and my feathering was so much smooth, the same goes for my cue delivery and im now able to break 30+ consistently again

This is the method employed by Higgins and co where the backswing was constant and power is determinded by speed of cue delivery.

Regarding your bridging distance i would recommend to keep it constant as this would add to another variable that your body needs to learn to adapt before it is second nature. i would rather you work on your "stroke" which often is the cause of all problems

[Terry Davidson]

I would agree that introducing another concious variable such as the length of the cue out over the 'V' of the bridge will add complications.

However, remember that players do adjust the amount of cue over the 'V' of the bridge for various shots (like off the cushion, balls close together, stretching for a shot). This is a normal thing to do and happens naturally as a player gains experience. BUT, you must remember to move the grip hand up or down the cue to match and compensate for the different length of shaft past the bridge.

Terry

[Izzyfcuk]

Terry

I understand what you're trying to say and i do agree wholeheartally to the examples you have given.

Ultimately i feel that regardless of "What methodologies" , the basis is that regardless of the types of shot. our body "MUST" feel comfortable when cueing.

[The Doctor]

Yes, moving bridge hand closer will offer less room for acceleration but as Terry says , any variable will offer more room for error but this is a technique used by many players. A note of caution though. you must make any adjustment also at the grip position.
You could go even further by going inside and outside the vertical to adjust cue power although as said before this brings in more variables and as the word consistency means, the more you do the same the more consistent the result both good and bad.

[Terry Davidson]

Comfort is the basic golden rule for the set-up and technique and I agree.

Because everyone has a slightly different physique, what is comfortable for one may not work for another which is why learning strictly from books is not the best thing as they only have one template for all.

Starting out with a book and getting into the 'ideal' set-up and using the book's 'ideal' technique is good for learning to play but a player who wants to improve MUST get to either a good coach or a knowledgeable fellow player who can help him find his own natural technique which suits his individual technique.

Terry