BIG problem!

[hotpot]

I have a similar problem , although i,m playing well and dont seem to be hittingh across the white that much , i just can shoot the spots at any pace consistently . Its either an allignment problem or i,m not cueing straight .

Think its time to see a coach . Anybody been to John Dobson or know anyone who has .

[ace man]

Yesterday evening there were Premier league matches. Williams, Selby, O'Sullivan and Ding in action. What I like about Premier league coverage is that you can very often see the stance and delivery of players. Somehow the camera angle is better than with regular tournaments.
Now I don't know if I'm imagining this, but it seemed to me that Selby approaches shots from a more steep angle than Williams. Even O'Sullivan seemed to shoot from a slightly more steep angle than Ding. Any thoughts?

[cazmac1]

Hi ace man, can you gives some more detail, I don't know what you mean exactly.
thanks

[Terry Davidson]

cazmac:

I believe ace man is referring to the fact that Selby forms a higher bridge than most players, even when screwing a shot. This means his cue is attacking the cueball at a steeper angle than most players.

I disagree with this principle as in effect he is hitting a partial masse shot on every screw shot and right now he is OK as he is young and still has that good coordination that ensures he is hitting the centre of the cueball. When he gets a bit older if he puts on just the smallest trace of side he will actually do a mine-swerve shot when screwing. It won't effect the short shots but it will effect his long-ball potting with any screw.

I haven't noticed this with the other players aceman mentions

Terry

[ace man]

What I meant was that Selby's cue during the stroke had slightly more elevation, i.e. to me Williams' cue appeared to be more parallel to the table surface on most shots. Likewise, I thought that Ding and Ronnie also had slightly different cue angles with respect to the table surface. I could be imagining things...waiting from coaches' comments...

Edit: Terry says Selby uses higher bridge on screw shots...that would explain it...

[cazmac1]

I think, in order to get a proper grasp of the technique of the game, you must look at the mechanics and the aim of those mechanics.
Thinking about dropping the elbow by so many inches or keeping the elbow high on the backswing is off course in my opinion. I have the up most respect for anyone who has a good understanding of the game and i respect the opinions of anyone who puts forward a good reason for their theories, so please no take offense to my views.
It is 100% correct to have the cue on a constant plane(angle) all the way through the shot, but if the angle is too steep to start, then you are really making the object of hitting the cue ball true and consistent very very difficult.
An example. What do you do when trying to swerve the cue ball? lift the butt(to increase the angle of delivery). In doing so you exaggerate the spin imparted on the cue ball.
What happens to the difficulty when cueing over a ball to hit the centre of the cue ball? It increases and so does the likelihood of off centre striking.

Now lets go back to the theory of having a steep delivery and maintaining it through the shot. Does the difficulty increase of hitting centre of cue ball? YES. Does the percentage of consistent striking go up or down? DOWN.
Therefor, it is without question, most important to first of all get your cue as parallel to the table as possible(shot permitting) and to maintain that plane throughout the cue action(including the final backswing and follow through).
Now assuming you have lined the shot up correctly, you are in the best position to execute the shot with the highest degree of efficiency and accuracy and furthermore have a far greater chance to do so consistently.

There are also the variables in length of backswing that will affect the amount the elbow will drop or not, but that is another subject all together.

I think we are saying the same thing, maybe I'm not putting it across very well. I cue with my cue almost touching the rail. but Del advises leaving a small gap so when you follow through and the elbow drops you don't hit the rail because there is a gap for the cue to move into. I agree with you 100% that the cue should be as level as the shot will allow and in the case of using del's cue action the gap only has to be very small 20mm or so. where not talking inches here.

[CoachGavin]

As Terry says I think with Selby it is more noticeable and often you will see a gap between his cue and the top of the cushion rail whereas players like john higgins are always very low to the rail. I think to be honest the players who 'drive' through tend to have this more downward elevation. I think Del says something on the linked video about how the cue goes up the slope (backswing) and then down and parallel to the table on the delivery. If John higgins did this he would probably hit his hand on the rail when he went through with the shot. Therefore I think you need the cue a little off the rail to begin with so that you end up parallel to the table when dropping the elbow. Rory mcleod plays at my club and his elevation is quite high and he too is a pupil of dels coaching.

[CoachGavin]

To me the main difference seems to be that on the drive the tip tends to end up parallel with the table. Obviously that is not the same as following the cue plane especially on screw shots where if you followed the plane you would end up with you tip touching the table. This is why you probably get more follow through with the drive. However I agree with doctor that we should concern ourselves with whats happening to the cue ball rather than watching elbows etc. My point about the topspin was that if someone says the elbow should not drop that leaves very little room for manovre. I know players who drop their elbows on backswing but the cue is remaining on the plane as Doctor says. You cant then say they are not playing right if they are following the correct plane. Anyway, just wanted to explain myself and show I am not obsessed with elbows although I think I have a nice elbow - nice and shapely with a good bone!

[Terry Davidson]

Just to clarify for everyone. I recommend that the elbow drops on LONG BACKSWINGS only but it should drop more often (but still not all the time) on delivery. Depends on the length of the swing both ways.

The only reason for this is I believe in order to keep the cue on the same plane throughout the stroke on the longer backswing and delivery it is necessary to drop the elbow.

Also, on deep screw shots the tip DOES hit the cloth as we all have seen when they use that super slow-motion camera they have. With Mark Selby's cue delivery, which is a little steeper than other players, this is more apparant but with almost any good player doing a deep screw the tip WILL hit and travel along the cloth but you would need that slow-mo camera to see it.

Next question...where do you all think the chalk marks on the cloth come from? It surely ain't by osmosis so the tip has to be hitting and running along the cloth. Chalk up before and after every screw shot just in case your next shot requires top spin and you've wiped all the chalk off the lower portion of your tip

Terry

[The Doctor]

Yes Terry the tip mark left on the cloth is a good indication that the cue has been delivered well and followed on a good plane.