Final Aim Adjustments

[checkSide]

Nice to see some debate on my thread! Thanks to everyone who replied.

Being a true tinkerer, I have been experimenting with this problem.
My conclusions are that the eyes definitely can decieve you when down on the shot, therefore it is far better to trust the line you picked whilst up on the shot.

The key for me now is taking extra care to align the cue and the shot properly.

This leads to more trust in just allowing your body to play the shot once the line has been picked.

[Terry Davidson]

checkside:

Is this not what all the coaches on here, myself included, have been saying for over a year now (in my case).

You always get the best perspective of the aiming point when you are standing behind the shot and if you place your grip side straight leg on that line of aim so the grip hand is over the laces of your shoes (the arch of the foot) and then ensure as you get down into the shot that your head drops STRAIGHT DOWN (by keeping your nose on that line of aim at all times) you cannot fail to be on the correct line of aim.

At the very least you vastly improve your chances of being on the correct line of aim. If you stay down and still after you've completed the delivery, with the cue extended and without moving your head observe the path of the object ball to the pocket (or near it) then you give your brain the chance to get the required feedback and it will automatically adjust you the next time if you happen to over/undercut the pot.

Terry

[Kibz]

Aiming issue

I have one of the Angle buddy’s (laser sighting gadgets). I set up a straight shot in front of a mirror and align the laser straight down the centre of both cue ball and object ball. I can then align the cue so that the laser is shining straight down the shaft of the cue. (A bit Geeky I know!)

The theory being that once I have done this I can then position my eyes/chin over the cue at the position where it looks like I am aiming in the centre of the cue ball and the object ball.

However the problem is when I have the cue perfectly aligned it doesn’t matter where I position my eyes over the cue it always looks like I am aiming to the right of centre on the object ball when down on a shot. I can see in the mirror that I am perfectly lined up but my eyes are telling me I am not.

I know from using the sightright board that I am slightly right eyed but even when running my cue on the position on my chin which the board suggests I should use it looks like I am in the centre of the cue ball but aimed to the right of centre on the object ball.

From a standing position I can drop onto the line of the shot perfectly (laser is running straight down the centre of cue) but as soon I’m down and focus on the object ball it looks like I am aiming right of centre.

Do any of you believe that this is normal? Could this be a problem with my eyes?

Most of you advocate trusting the picture you see when stood behind the shot.

Could you tell me what you see when your down on a shot? For example when down on a straight shot does it actually look like your aiming in the centre of the object ball?

Any help on this issue would be much appreciated.

[Terry Davidson]

kibz:

Now you have really presented a thorny problem.

I guess my first question is how happy are you that you're lining the laser up correctly in the first place? If your eyes tell you that you seem to be lined up to the right on the object ball then how can you positively determine you have lined up the laser correctly and through the dead centre of the object ball, cueball and finally through the centre of your cue all the way to your grip hand?

I have to admit I've never seen or used a laser system, so perhaps they have a method to do this so everything is exactly on line.

To me it sounds like an eye problem so perhaps you have some astigmatism in one or both of your eyes. However, here is something I've noticed which may help (or not).

When I pot a lot straight blue shot and then at the end of the delivery look down the line of my cue with both eyes the cue seems to be pointed slightly to the left. However, if I close my right eye and look down the cue with just the left eye then everything is exactly on line. Initially this disturbed me a bit but I might be a special case as I've had lens replacement surgery in both eyes and my preferred eye has always been my right eye but after the surgery I have the sharpest vision out of my left eye and now it appears I'm aiming with my left eye and using the image from that over the slightly blurry image from my right eye.

If you don't want to go to an optician and get your eyes checked, then take a school compass and draw a perfect 6in circle on a piece of paper, hang it on the wall and look at it from about 10ft away. If it still appears to be a perfect circle then your eyes are OK, with no astigmatism, however if it appears a bit egg-shaped either vertically or horizontally, then you may have some astigmatism and you may want to get some corrective lenses.

Before the surgery I had slight astigmatism in both eyes, worse in the left and I have always worn gas permeable contact lenses, and I still do since I can't get the lasik surgery with the replacement lenses in the back of my eyes. I still wear the contact lenses though as I like to have very sharp vision (20/15 - slightly far-sighted) and I have that in my left eye but they can't get it with my right eye because of problems on my cornea.

Don't know if this will help you or not, but do the check and see what the results are

Terry

[sh1234]

kibz:

I used to have the exact same problem as you, and I spent a good few months not knowing what was wrong, questioning my eyesight and everything. I could see in the mirror I was aiming across the cueball to the right, but it looked straight to me.

One day, I decided to work on my stance, because it was always uncomfortable (at this point, I had given up on seeing the centre of the cueball). I realised that I was most comfortable when my right foot arch was exactly on the line of the shot, but I had always had my right foot inside the line. A while later, I brought the mirror out again and noticed I was aiming perfectly straight on the dead-in blue, and everything looked straight to me.

I would recommend that you work on your fundamentals (lots of good posts from Terry) before you start questioning your eyesight.

[Kibz]

Thanks for your reply Terry.

I am certain the laser is running down the centre of the ball. I have used ball markers, got second opinions etc. Even if I take the balls out of the equation and just aim at a piece of chalk it still looks like I am aiming to the right of centre. I can see in the mirror that the laser light is going straight through the centre of the chalk the centre of my tip and straight down the centre of the cue shaft right up to my chin.

As for looking at a circle on the wall I just tried that (using a circular tea coaster). No astigmatisms. I also have 20/20 vision.

What the experiment is highlighting is also evident in my shots. I hit to the left of the object ball every time. (Where my eyes tell me the centre is, is actually off to the left of the object ball.)

I am completely at a loss to solve this problem.

[Terry Davidson]

No idea what to tell you. Were you my student I would take you right back to basics and check out your alignment when you are in the address position.

The check would be if your grip hand is directly over the laces (or arch) of your right foot and if the arch of the right foot is directly on the cue's line of aim and not inside or outside. I would also try and work on getting your elbow directly behind the line of aim and directly over the cue, which may entail cocking your wrist a little more and moving the cue towards the fingertips a touch.

This is a very unusual problem in that most players can determine the line of aim automatically but their problem is not delivering the cue straight.

I have to admit I'm at a loss to offer you any advice except for the alignment check above in the address position.

Terry

[The Doctor]

This is definitely an eye problem. You sound as if you have done a fair bit of homework on this so i will not bore you with too much details.

Each eye takes a slightly different picture of the world. At the optic chiasm each picture is divided in half. The outer left and right halves continue back toward the visual cortex. The inner left and right halves cross over to the other side of the brain then continue back toward the visual cortex.
Put simply the pictures are split into 4 parts and your brain interprets the images to create a 3D image.
Your problem is that your images are focusing on a point that does not match the true centre. A very common but annoying problem none the less.
To fix this is not easy at all. Most of the time changing the sight line will correct the problem. Now don't confuse this with playing under the dominant eye as i believe this to be a false belief(although some people do need to play directly under one eye in particular).
What you need to find out is where your centre is. What i mean by this is similar to the sight right method, although i don't believe this covers all the problems.
Basically the image along the line of the shot from both eyes should be mirror images of each other. The best way to do this is up and down the spots as the image will be mirrored on both sides. Now without seeing you, my belief is that the image is different on one side to the other. Your task is to get both images the same, then you will be in "YOUR" centre.
It will require you to spend a lot of time and effort to correct this but there are no short cut im affraid.
Hope this helps.

[Nic Barrow]

This may give you some useful information:

http://www.thesnookergym.com/aiming....g.solution.php

[Kibz]

Cheers

Thanks for the help and advise guys.

Looks like its just going to be persaverance and hopefully I will get it sorted.

Doctor I understand what you are saying. That is pretty much what the sightright board is trying to achieve. The point between your eyes where the eyes are showing a symmetrical image. This point between my eyes should then be over the centre of the shaft of my cue.

From a standing position using my laser (or even the baulk line) a straight shot looks exactly that. I take care to take my body to cue (keeping it on line with the path I have already selected) rather than bringing my cue into my body when getting down on the snot. I have to be moving my eyes/head accross the line of aim when getting down on the shot.

Nick thank you for the offer, your product looks interesting. I will have a think about it.

[The Doctor]

It sound very much like you ARE moving your head across the line when going down. A friend could help by standing at other end of the table and holding a plumb line down the cue line when your standing up and seeing where it is in relation to the point between your eyes, then keeping his line see when and where the movement comes in.
It is a far more common problem than most people think.

[Pyragon]

Hi Terry
When ready to strike the cue ball are you looking at the object ball or the cue ball?
i am having this problem if the cue ball is too far from the object ball, i cannot see my object ball (for direction) if i look at the cue ball and if i look at my object ball i cannot strike the cue ball in the right direction i want(because i am not lookin at it.

but if the distance is close and i can see both balls i can pot very well.


please help thank you

[nrage]

Hi Terry
When ready to strike the cue ball are you looking at the object ball or the cue ball?
i am having this problem if the cue ball is too far from the object ball, i cannot see my object ball (for direction) if i look at the cue ball and if i look at my object ball i cannot strike the cue ball in the right direction i want(because i am not lookin at it.

but if the distance is close and i can see both balls i can pot very well.

Terry will probably explain this better, but I'll have a go too.. with any luck Terry will agree with me, or point out any mistakes I'm making too

As you get down on the shot your eyes are on the object ball and line of aim, concentrate on placing the cue on the line of aim. This should result in the cue tip being centre ball on the white without requiring you look at it directly, you will learn to sense/see it out of the corner of your eye and get better at this with practice.

Do not move the cue until you have brought your chest, chin etc into contact with it. This fixes it in place, on the line of aim.

Next, do 1 or more 'waggles' or practice strokes to get the feel of the stroke, to fix the power and back-swing in your mind, and to ensure the cue is travelling on the line of aim and not across the white. Eyes will be going from cue to object and back, along the line of aim.

If you can see the pocket you might look at the pocket to verify the line of aim is correct, if it feels wrong get back up and start again.. don't just adjust in place. I don't always use the pocket as a guide, especially on long pots as you cannot see any angles from down on the shot, however I believe that as you get more experience you will be able to use the pocket as a final guide/verification more often

Pause at the front, eyes on the white/tip contact point, ensuring it is centre ball (or where you're intending to strike).

Pull back for final stroke, eyes move from white to object ball (and stay there for remainder of shot).

Pause at the back, eyes are on the object ball, specifically the spot you're trying to hit, or the line of aim i.e. edge of object ball for half ball.

Play the stroke, keep your eyes on the object ball and watch where it goes - hopefully into the pocket, see if it goes into the centre of the pocket or into the left or right. Do not move or get up off the shot until you have observed where the object ball goes... unless, of course, you have to avoid a ball, in which case move as little as possible.

One reason for the pauses is to give your eyes time to travel from ball to ball and 'fix' in place, so they're ready when you deliver the cue. Apparently as you get older your eyes do not focus as fast, so need longer to work.

Have you ever played a shot, missed, and then been unable to recall whether the white hit the red where you were aiming, or even exactly where you were aiming? If so, then your eyes were not 'fixed' on the target or you did not observe the object ball and perhaps got up off the shot too soon. If you can't recall it, your brain probably hasn't learnt anything from the shot, so you'll probably make the same mistake next time.

[Terry Davidson]

good answer from nrage. I'll add 1 thing...ABSOLUTELY NO MOVEMENT OF THE HEAD AND SHOULDERS ONCE YOUR HAND HITS THE TABLE UNTIL WELL AFTER YOU'VE DELIVERED THE CUE.


This means no adjustments to aiming when on the shot AT ALL and also keep your head down and still after you deliver the cue and your hand hits your chest, following the object ball with your eyes ONLY, not your head (to get the required feedback).

Terry

[Pyragon]

Thank you Nrage and Terry

i will try it out today or tomorrow and let you guys know how i go.