Improving potting consistency

[ninodecoro]

Query

Had a couple of things i wanted to know...
In a masse shot how what determines the radius of the turn?
I am able to play the masse shot along the cushion but i am unable to do so in the middle of the table primarily due to a very weak bridge ... any tips to improve this?
screwback:
on what factors does the distance a ball screws back depend on?

Thanks a lot in advance.

[hotpot]

I dont know why you feel you need to do a massey in the middle of the table , i would never do this in practice let alone a match .

As for the screw back , many things will determine this , your technique , your tip n chalk , your cue , table conditions ie ,balls n cloth . Getting the white to screw back to the desired spot takes a lot of practice , work on your technique and start off close , when you master it go a little further and so on .

[thelongbomber]

Thanks long for that, just so I am very clear the spot u are looking at

1) is it on your side of the OB, i.e nearest to the cue ball which is inline with the pocket and opposite the direction I would want the OB to travel.

2)how far is the spot away from the ball is it under the edge of the ball or very tight almost where the ball touches the cloth

Cheers

How would this differ from looking at a spot on the ball itself. My problem is when I walk round to check the point on the OB I can see it clearly however as soon as I go back and stand behind the cue ball I easily lose the point.

The problem you mentioned where you "lose sight" of the aiming point is exactly the issue I was able to solve with my technique. Having used this technique for at least a few months now, I find myself picking off at least something behind the OB (and inline with the pocket). Sometimes it's below the ball when I'm up close (less than 2 feet) and sometimes it's an inch or further behind the OB.

At any rate, picking a shadow/point/mark behind the OB is much easier to use as a visual aid to potting correctly. For years I would look at the OB itself, but now I just look at points on the table cloth behind the OB when walking into the shot, feathering, and sometimes when striking the cue ball.

[thelongbomber]

A lot of questions about this technique. I know it's not official or sanctioned and it's my own creation but hey, the first new technique maker was a pioneer right?

To help others in this thread, I'm going to outline my entire approach from approaching the table to finishing the shot. Here it is:

1. Opponent leaves table

2. I approach table and determine course of action - do I pot or play safe. My friends know I almost always go for the shot if it's on so very few shots are low percentage shots for me. My potting ability is my best asset so I use it and play to that strength.

3. I determine where I want to position the cue ball after shot is completed based on what is reasonable from the shot. For example I'm not going to play a 5 cushion power shot if it's low percentage. I always pick high percentage shape and try to minimize spin/side/english in the shot. I will sacrifice english if I can play the shot without it. I used to play a spin ball game in my earlier years but last year got a better understanding of centre ball and prefer a simpler game.

4. I determine what spin (if any) I need to execute the shot and the pace needed.

5. I stare at the OB until I can pick out the potting angle (or angle where the OB will go). This is where my technique described above comes into play

6. I approach the table, fix my stance, bridge hand and cue and begin feathering. At this point, I already know where I need to strike the cue ball, where the cue ball will go, and have a "sense" for pace and power based on the previous steps. During the first 1 or 2 feather strokes, I focus on a specific point on the cue ball that I want to strike and adjust my bridge hand accordingly. This is essential! You must strike the cue ball with precision and at a specific point!

If the feathering doesn't feel right (that I will miss the pot), I will continue feathering and adjusting, and in some circumstances, even get up off the shot, and line up again.

7. Before the final backswing, I tell myself to pull back slowly. This is something I'm still working on and I'm going to leave my reasons why to another forum post.

8. I pull back slow (when I remember!), pause momentarily, and then execute the shot.

So how well does this work? Well for me my approach is awesome. In the past 6 months around ten 50+ breaks, a 70, 74, and 85 in practice, and dozens of 30+ breaks.

Friends have always known me as a "potter from hell" but now my shape is a lot better and I haven't lost my potting ability. If anything I'm potting more balls and on average winning more matches.

[alabadi]

I find myself picking off at least something behind the OB (and inline with the pocket). Sometimes it's below the ball when I'm up close (less than 2 feet) and sometimes it's an inch or further behind the OB.

Hi bomber

When u say behind the OB, are you talking pocket side or side facing you, I say this because i would imagine u wouldn't be able to see on the pocket side if the OB is between you and the pocket as it would block your site

Regards

[thelongbomber]

Hi bomber

When u say behind the OB, are you talking pocket side or side facing you, I say this because i would imagine u wouldn't be able to see on the pocket side if the OB is between you and the pocket as it would block your site

Regards

The side facing you

[alabadi]

Hi long bomber

I tried your methods and had mixed success, on the blue I had some success because I could use the shadow from the light to pick a point however on the black it was difficult, I wasn't able to pick a spot on the cloth, I practice on championship table down at the snooker academy in Sheffield theses cloths are pristine with no marks so it's hard to pick a spot on the cloth, it was as hard as picking a spot on the back of the OB.
G
I'll have to practice a bit more to see if this method would benefit me before I make a decision to what I think of it.

[thelongbomber]

Hi long bomber

I tried your methods and had mixed success, on the blue I had some success because I could use the shadow from the light to pick a point however on the black it was difficult, I wasn't able to pick a spot on the cloth, I practice on championship table down at the snooker academy in Sheffield theses cloths are pristine with no marks so it's hard to pick a spot on the cloth, it was as hard as picking a spot on the back of the OB.
G
I'll have to practice a bit more to see if this method would benefit me before I make a decision to what I think of it.

Thanks for the feedback!

[alabadi]

Hi Longbomber

as i mentioned to you previously i have started your method of sighting and have had a second go at it yesterday, what i did find was that when the balls were in the middle of the table i.e any where near the blue spot i was able to have a lot of success this was due to fact i was able to use the shadow from the lights.

when the ball is near the middle of the table you get two circle shadows, where they crossed i was able to use this point to line up the leading edge of the cueball and had at least 70-80% success.

however when the balls where nearer the top or bottom of the table or closer to the cussions the shadows were a lot weaker and it was hard to pinpoint a spot. where there were hardly any shadow it was even more difficult and i didn't seem to get much success most of my attempts in these areas were hit thicker than i expected.

i have a couple of questions for you

1) is this the way you pick a spot on the cloth using the shadow?
2) how far from the edge of the OB is the spot, is it under the ball or directly below the edge.

if you can answer me these questions i would appreciate it.

I would like to say if you made a video it would be easier to understand and would be a good coaching tool

[thelongbomber]

Hi Longbomber

1) is this the way you pick a spot on the cloth using the shadow?
2) how far from the edge of the OB is the spot, is it under the ball or directly below the edge.

if you can answer me these questions i would appreciate it.

I would like to say if you made a video it would be easier to understand and would be a good coaching tool

Hi Alabadi. I'm not sure I have a clear answer for you. I don't use any particular part of the shadow really. All I can tell you is that looking at points behind the OB, instead of the OB itself has helped me tremendously on tough potting angles. To make things more complex, I'm finding that as I use my aiming method more often (especially on angles I couldn't previously see), I'm using it less because muscle memory and feeling the potting angle is starting to take over. Shots I once struggled with are second nature now.

I suspect that the aiming method I devised might just be a starting point for picking out angles that a player struggles to see and feel on a continual basis. Good examples are cuts into the side, blind shots, back cuts - generally any shot where the pocket or target isn't in your frame of vision and you are left guessing the potting angle or trying see a ghost ball.

Now, for OB's on rails, and at long distance, you are correct: you don't really have anything to aim at. Sometimes, a shadow might appear at short distance but generally it's hard to use. For these particular shots, I'm using a combination of: ghost ball, feeling the correct angle, and just my past playing experience.

I have to say that potting and aiming in snooker is, to some degree, a product of feel and touch. Logic, Physics, and Objective theories that work every time only go part of the way at explaining all aspects of this beautiful game. This is why the game continues to be a challenge to play and succeed at.

I'm delighted you tried my aiming system and I really appreciate your thorough exploration of it! I'm convinced it's still incredibly useful and if you are seeing immediate results, then it has some merit!

For the record, I'm on a mission: to make potting as easy as possible. I know that becoming a natural and fearless potter is one of the secrets to this game and is the main road to becoming a big break king. My reasoning is based on this discovery: focus and attention span is unique to each individual. Genetically, some have more and some have less. If you can reduce the attention and brainpower needed to pot balls, and put more focus and energy into cue ball position then big breaks and greater match success become possible. The aiming system described here goes part way into helping you become better at potting tough shots which in turn helps your game overall.

Thanks again Alabadi!!

[roykay]

Ninodecoro, the radius of the masse depends on the steepness of the cue. The higher the but the tighter the curve.
For bridging try the loop bridge with the wrist and forearm held tightly against the body.
You might be supprised how gently you can play the masse.Big mistake to hit it too hard,it is a sharp rap.
It takes a lot of practice. As regards screw,most of it has allready been explained.
Roy Bacon

[Raldon]

8. I pull back slow (when I remember!), pause momentarily, and then execute the shot.

Where are you looking at whilest the delivery?