black as the free ball

[The Statman]

The "maximum of four times" is talking about where a Miss is called, which doesn't happen when snookers are required by either player - so it can only happen 4 times because it must be in the period between being 13 points ahead to being 13 behind. On the pink, that can be only four occasions.

However, the black being used as a free ball can happen unlimited times, in theory. Look at the following example:

You foul and leave me a free ball. I roll up behind the black to snooker you. You fail to escape and again leave a free ball, and I again roll up behind the black. This time you escape and a couple of turns later I foul and leave you a free ball - and this time you roll up behind the black. I fail to escape ... and so it could go on forever.

[Souwester]

... and so it could go on forever.

... until the referee declares a stalemate and restarts the frame!

[Souwester]

But I am not so sure about being able to play this for an unlimited times. I read some where that this could take place only once in a single frame.

If there is no 'foul and a miss' call, then Statman has now shown how the number of instances could be unlimited. There is definitely nothing in the rules to say that it can happen only once per frame... although in all probability it WILL only happen once in a frame at most. In fact it happens so rarely it will only arise maybe once in several hundred frames!

[adibon]

The "maximum of four times" is talking ... and so it could go on forever.

Salam,

Where this is in the rule book?
Is this good for a match to go on for ever? Is this written some where?

Be Sport ... become adib ( wise )

[adibon]

... until the referee declares a stalemate and restarts the frame!

Salam,
You have the other player trapped and the referee calls a stalemate, do you go for this yourself?

Be Sport ... become adib ( wise )

[Souwester]

Salam,

Where this is in the rule book?
Is this good for a match to go on for ever? Is this written some where?

Be Sport ... become adib ( wise )

Not sure what bit your're talking about as to whether it is in the rule book. The situation about there being a maximum of four times has been explained by Statman. A 'Foul and a Miss' can only be called an absolute maximum of four times when only pink and black are left on the table, because F&M cannot be called once the difference in scores is such that either player needs snookers either before or as a result of a shot.

Player A, therefore cannot start such a sequence of misses by being more than 13 points in front, else player B would need snookers and the first F&M could not be called. Player A cannot be more than 13 points behind after the sequence of F&M calls, as he would then need snooker. Going from a maximum of 13 in front to 12 behind is a maximum movement in points of 26. A foul and a miss on the pink is worth six point penalty, so you can only have a maximum of four 6 point penalties to stay within that maximum 26 point movement. It simply isn't mathematically possible to call more than four F&M in this scenario.

The rule doesn't explicitly say 'you can't call more than four F&Ms when only pink and black are left on the table' but it's the mathematical limit imposed by not being able to call a Miss when either player needs snookers before or after a shot.

Section 3 rule 14:

(b) If the striker, in making a stroke, fails to first hit a ball on when there is a clear path in a straight line from the cue-ball to any part of any ball that is or could be on, the referee shall call FOUL AND A MISS unless either player needed snookers before, or as a result of, the stroke played and the referee is satisfied that the miss was not intentional.

[Souwester]

Further to my last post, a comment about the scenario carrying on indefinitely. Whilst it is true that it could go on indefinitely in reality is not likely to happen, and as I suggested in an earlier post, if the balls were so situated, then if it looked like there was going to be an endless repetition of these shots then the referee would ask the players if they wanted to restart the frame because a stalemate had been reached, or he would warn them that if the situation was not resolved 'within a short spacer of time' then he would restart the frame of his own volition.

If either player considers that a stalemate has been reached a player too can suggest to the other that restarting the frame is in order. I refereed a match a year or so ago, when the players started tapping into the pack at the start of the frame. After just a shot or so each one suggested a restart, to which the other agreed. As referee I'd have given it a couple more shots each before making the suggestion, but as both players were happy the frame was indeed restarted straight away.

I hope these answers adequately deal with your points.

[The Statman]

Further to my last post, a comment about the scenario carrying on indefinitely. Whilst it is true that it could go on indefinitely in reality is not likely to happen, and as I suggested in an earlier post, if the balls were so situated, then if it looked like there was going to be an endless repetition of these shots then the referee would ask the players if they wanted to restart the frame because a stalemate had been reached, or he would warn them that if the situation was not resolved 'within a short spacer of time' then he would restart the frame of his own volition.

If either player considers that a stalemate has been reached a player too can suggest to the other that restarting the frame is in order. I refereed a match a year or so ago, when the players started tapping into the pack at the start of the frame. After just a shot or so each one suggested a restart, to which the other agreed. As referee I'd have given it a couple more shots each before making the suggestion, but as both players were happy the frame was indeed restarted straight away.

I hope these answers adequately deal with your points.

Yes but the question was only how many times in a frame, not how many times in quick succession. Suppose I leave you a free ball and roll up behind the black; you escape the snooker and a safety battle ensues, before once again one player makes a foul and leaves a free ball. If these incidences happened at various points throughout the time the pink is on the table, then there would be no suggestion of stalemate at any time.

[The Statman]

Salam,

Where this is in the rule book?
Is this good for a match to go on for ever? Is this written some where?

Be Sport ... become adib ( wise )

Well if both players play to their absolute best, in theory, every frame would last forever beacuse from the break-off every safety shot would never leave a pot on for his opponent to take on.

[adibon]

A foul and a miss on the pink is worth six point penalty,

Salam,

and it may worth 7 points. right?