elbow drop/ del hill

[stephenm2682]

another thing i've noticed with ronne, is that his hand doesn't hit his chest on a power shot or so it looks, if you look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kQF89dxIk
at 1:10 its not a so called power shot.

i noticed today with myself, that i don't hit my chest like i used to, cause it used to hurt lol, my hand finishes somewhere under my shoulder? hard to discribe tho.

[Slasher]

I'm afraid there are some of you that just aren't getting it at all.

If you accept the fact that the cue must be kept on the same plane throughout the backswing and delivery then the elbow MUST drop in order to do that.

I think the confusion arises on the backswing portion because for most players (not Ronnie or Selby) on a shorter backswing the flexibility of the grip is all that's required to keep the cue on the same plane. If a player is drawing the cue back further, say over 6 inches, then the grip flexibility is not enough to keep the cue butt from rising a bit (7-10 degrees). Therefore when a player uses a long backswing he should attempt to keep the butt at the same height as otherwise he will end up with a 'scooping' motion with the tip of the cue and it will be rising as he approaches the cueball and he would need absolutely perfect coordination to hit the cueball at the desired height.

Also, starting with Joe Davis back in the 40's dropping the elbow on the delivery was a common thing as otherwise you would end up with the 'billiards player's flourish' where the tip of the cue comes off the bridge at the end of the delivery.

On the delivery, if you are doing the correct thing and not tightening the grip until the hand hits the chest then you also MUST drop the elbow, especially on a power shot. Thing about it, you have a cue weighing about the same as 5 snooker balls coming through at high acceleration and you're not going to grip the cue tighter until your thumb hits your chest. Just the weight of the cue will pull your arm through and in order to keep the cue as level as possible you again have to drop the elbow.

For example, on a power shot with an 8 inch backswing, the elbow will drop about one inch and on the delivery with a 10 inch follow-through the elbow should drop around 2 inches (although Joe Davis dropped his further because he had shorter arms PLUS he recommended using the loop bridge on power shots to stop the cue tip from rising at the end of the delivery).

Stopping, or decelerating the cue before the hand hits the chest causes the player to jerk on the shot and in order for the body to complete the power shot smoothly it's necessary to let nature take its course and allow the cue to complete the action and not stop until the back of the thumb hits the chest and squeezes the cue butt against the forefinger.

And Slasher...I would recommend you take another look at your video where you are practicing a table-length screw shot and tell us how much your elbow drops on those shots where you were accurate. My estimate is about 3 inches at least. I'm afraid it's a natural thing to do.

For those who ignore the elbow drop on delivery I would recommend they use the loop bridge (so their tip doesn't rise as it comes through the cueball and hits the lights) but they will be limited in the acceleration they can get through the cueball and thus have a limited choice when a real power shot is required.

Terry

It is the natural tendency with the extra force but at the end of the day it does not contribute to the CB action it is simply a shock absorber for my forearm. So there is no reason to try and incorporate it into every shot.

[nrage]

It is the natural tendency with the extra force but at the end of the day it does not contribute to the CB action it is simply a shock absorber for my forearm. So there is no reason to try and incorporate it into every shot.

The reason is consistency. If you can play all your shots using the exact same arm/cue action and then vary only the backswing length to vary the power, you're going to find it much easier to be consistent IMO. Dell mentions this several times in the videos the OP linked.

[cazmac1]

Thats some potting mate, I think many pros would be happy with that kind of success on the long blue. Just watch your vid and would like to give my opinion if you don't mind. When I was practicing with del he kept saying to me not to be voilent, at the time I didn't quite get it, then after a few months I'm begining to get it now. With the del drive you can generate more power and spin with a slower smoother cue action. Looking at your vid I would say you are being to voilent at the moment with you action. Keep practicing the drive and you will find that you will generate more power with a slower action.
Keep up the the good work

[cazmac1]

This dropping the elbow sh*t has only come in the last 8 or so years with O'sullivan , before then every other player would advocate not dropping the elbow
Dont do it ...... but if you want to go and do it ..be trendy

Your post are very aggresive bonoman, I can't understand where your coming from, It's just one method of many. Every one has to find what works best them, by saying it is S*** is over the top and makes me wonder what your motives are. Relex M8 it's just a game

[Slasher]

The reason is consistency. If you can play all your shots using the exact same arm/cue action and then vary only the backswing length to vary the power, you're going to find it much easier to be consistent IMO. Dell mentions this several times in the videos the OP linked.

I know what your saying but we are talkin post contact so I don't think it's needed on normal or slow speed shots, if it happens on a power shot so be it let the natural flow take it's course. Just no need to force this into every shot.

[sh1234]

I understand where you're coming from Slasher, because the elbow drops after the delivery you think it doesn't matter. It's not the elbow dropping which is important per se, it's just that the elbow will naturally drop if you accelerate all the way through the cue ball on every shot, which is what is really important.

[cazmac1]

I know what your saying but we are talkin post contact so I don't think it's needed on normal or slow speed shots, if it happens on a power shot so be it let the natural flow take it's course. Just no need to force this into every shot.

Have to disagree with you slasher, its on the slow shots that the dropping of the elbow really comes in to play. It allows much more control and allows you to play the ball very positively.
I don't think you can knock it unless you've tryed it, and I don't just mean for a few frames. You have to give it six months to a year in my opinion.

[cazmac1]

I understand where you're coming from Slasher, because the elbow drops after the delivery you think it doesn't matter. It's not the elbow dropping which is important per se, it's just that the elbow will naturally drop if you accelerate all the way through the cue ball on every shot, which is what is really important.

Spot on with this post

[Slasher]

I understand where you're coming from Slasher, because the elbow drops after the delivery you think it doesn't matter. It's not the elbow dropping which is important per se, it's just that the elbow will naturally drop if you accelerate all the way through the cue ball on every shot, which is what is really important.

I could see this if you were addressing the CB from 6" away but the CB is long gone, accelerate all you want after contact it won't change a thing
Just to add, what Alex H did after contact had no effect, ie cue in the light fixtures etc

[stephenm2682]

casmac1: having watched your lesson with del when you pot the balls into the middle, your elbow doesn't drop.

[sh1234]

I could see this if you were addressing the CB from 6" away but the CB is long gone, accelerate all you want after contact it won't change a thing
Just to add, what Alex H did after contact had no effect, ie cue in the light fixtures etc

Yes, but if you are agreeing with me that it is best to accelerate through the cue ball, then it makes sense to keep accelerating after you've hit it. How can you expect to consistently accelerate through the ball if you are going to artificially stop the cue just after it hits the cue ball (at the chest)? More importantly, why would you want to, what are the benefits of not dropping the elbow?

[sh1234]

And on the Higgins thing, old men in my club do that to, but they are neither double world champions nor do they have the natural talent that Higgins had. No top player nowadays does this.

[cazmac1]

casmac1: having watched your lesson with del when you pot the balls into the middle, your elbow doesn't drop.

First lesson M8, still learning

[cazmac1]

I'm surrprised at the reaction to this, some people are so set in there ways they refuse to listen or try any thing new. If you have learned the game one way and can play the game at a high standard there is no reason for you to change and no one is asking you to, but to slagg this style of is just pure nonsense. Ronnie has without dought one of the best cue actions ever.
All I can say is having tryed it I know it works, and when I get my timing right and grove the action I'm sure I'll be a better player for it.