Cue rubbing the chest or not ?

[johno]

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this subject.
Some coaches such as Del Hill advocate using the chest as
another guideline and others don't. Steve Davis mentions in his
book that he cues around the chest, what are the pro's and cons.
One other thing does this have any bearing on dropping your elbow,
a topic recently discussed in detail.

[CoachGavin]

Advantage is that it is extra point to hold cue on line of aim. Gives another contact point and helps so that you know you are online. However other coaches say that players can start pulling cue tight into chest as they cue and start coming across the ball. Other coaches dont care. I think most professionals probably do use the chest as a contact point but like you say Davis did not and I heard he was quite a good player.

[Theguywithaplan]

This is very important and every professional I know does it. When you keep the cue on the chest at all times it feels as though it's impossible to not cue straight. Just out of interest, which coaches don't advise this?

[adibon]

Cue rubbing the chest or not ?

Salam ,

can you make the cue to rub the chest on this occasions:
1-when using a rest
2-when the cue ball is tight to the cushions?
3-when using an up right bridge?
4- when using a long following through
5- when using powerful shots

there are many others left but to make it short,if you do rub the cue against your chest do not ask others to do so,please.
our game needs logic not models

Be sport ... become adib ( wise )

[nrage]

Salam ,

can you make the cue to rub the chest on this occasions:
1-when using a rest
2-when the cue ball is tight to the cushions?
3-when using an up right bridge?
4- when using a long following through
5- when using powerful shots

there are many others left but to make it short,if you do rub the cue against your chest do not ask others to do so,please.
our game needs logic not models

Be sport ... become adib ( wise )

Ok. Logically..

1. If having the cue on the chest helps keep it on line then..
2. you should do it whenever possible..

So, the important Q is, does it help you?

- If yes, see #2 above. Meaning in situations (2-5) listed above you should do it, if possible. Situation #1 is different, there are other recommendations for it.

- If no, one more Q.. are you sure you're doing it in the recommended manner? Because, logically, if good players do it and good coaches recommend it, then logic would dictate that it is likely a good idea/technique.

----

Personally, I've found that when I do it correctly i.e. get the cue on line, bring my chest to the cue - not my cue to my chest, and when my elbow is on line (my biggest problem at present) then it feels like I cannot help but cue straight.

But.. when I get it wrong, either moving my cue to chest, or not getting down straight, or my elbow pulling my cue off line, then it feels bad.

The thing is, I can feel when it's wrong .. so I can get back up and try again. If you're not touching your chest, you have no feedback, and you may not realise you're cueing badly. So, it seems like a win-win situation to me. In short, it's not _required_ for straight cueing but helps teach it, and provides a check to ensure you keep doing it.

[Terry Davidson]

Gavin gave the correct answer.

Coaches vary on this point and it comes down to either how the student learned to cue in the first place or if he feels locking the cue to the chest gives him the extra point of contact and keeps the cue on line.

The danger is, UNLESS YOU DROP THE ELBOW ON THE DELIVERY, most players will develop the bad habit of bringing the grip around the chest on power shots and for a right-hander, driving the butt to the right and the tip slightly to the left.

My own recommendation is lightly brushing the chest but not either pulled hard into the chest or bringing the chest hard down onto the cue (sorry Del). However, it is also necessary to get the right elbow up as high as possible so it is a balancing act.

In the end it comes down to personal preference and whatever gives the player the more confidence.

Terry

[CoachGavin]

"Gavin gave the correct answer."

I suppose there has to be a first time for everything!

[DeanH]

I have found myself doing exactly what Gavin and Terry mention here, specifically:
Sometime ago I changed my stance to have the cue touching the chest, not too tightly but just to be sure it is not wobbling. And recently I have found that on cue delivery my hand is dragging across my chest, I am a right-hander, so this means the butt goes to my left, causing the tip to go right on the cue-ball. (Terry is this what you meant?)
The movement is not much but you all out there can appreciate it does not take much to throw the cue off enough to p**s you off :-(
I have practised trying to stop this butt-drag, anyone out there have any suggestions on how stopping this?
My stance is now greater than 45deg to the cue, which find comfortable and allows me to sight well through my spectacles.
Any ideas anyone?
DeanH

[Terry Davidson]

DeanH:

Just the opposite movement to what I meant. I have found with right-handed players who have the cue tight into the chest for security they tend to steer the but around the chest, which takes the butt to the right and the tip slightly to the left.

I've never seen it happen the other way around with taking the butt to the left and tip to the right.

If you do have the cue close or tight on your chest in the address position I can only suggest you try and drop the elbow, which will give you better clearance of the chest and stop the butt from moving sideways, although in your case you must naturally be pulling the butt INTO your body. With a 45-degree stance I find this very unusual and you must be doing something else to cause this. (Perhaps tightening the grip too soon and maybe your grip is too far into your palm and when the hand closes the butt goes to the left?)

I would recommend you experiment with using a strong wrist cock with the grip hand, so in the address position you have 3-4 wrinkles in the flesh over the wrist/forearm joint and the butt of the cue slightly to the right of the end of the long forearm bone. This might cure the problem but without seeing you in action it is very difficult to come up with the reason and develop a solution for you.

Terry

[stephenm2682]

i wrote this on my other thread but never got an answer, it's regarding the follow through, i find that the cue doesn't hit my chest, my hand more or less finishes under my arm pit area? anyone else find they do this? i think it's because i used to hit my chest quite hard on power shots and yeah it hurts!

[johno]

Terry

Thanks for your reply.

Please can you clarify one thing, everyone is talking about 'dropping the elbow'
on delivery, this is something I don't do at the moment but have tried to
incorporate....can you talk me through the actual motion, is it a conscious
movement that you think about on the final backswing/pause. I find myself
just thinking about this and missing the pot as my focus is just on dropping my
elbow!

[johno]

Hi Gavin

thanks for your reply, I've asked Terry the same question but can you explain
in more details the actual phyics of dropping the elbow...how would I
incorparate this into my cue action. I currently don't drop my elbow but do
have the cue rubbing against my chest (i'm right handed by the way)

[DeanH]

Cue (hand) into chest on Delivery

DeanH:

Just the opposite movement to what I meant. I have found with right-handed players who have the cue tight into the chest for security they tend to steer the but around the chest, which takes the butt to the right and the tip slightly to the left.

I've never seen it happen the other way around with taking the butt to the left and tip to the right.

If you do have the cue close or tight on your chest in the address position I can only suggest you try and drop the elbow, which will give you better clearance of the chest and stop the butt from moving sideways, although in your case you must naturally be pulling the butt INTO your body. With a 45-degree stance I find this very unusual and you must be doing something else to cause this. (Perhaps tightening the grip too soon and maybe your grip is too far into your palm and when the hand closes the butt goes to the left?)

I would recommend you experiment with using a strong wrist cock with the grip hand, so in the address position you have 3-4 wrinkles in the flesh over the wrist/forearm joint and the butt of the cue slightly to the right of the end of the long forearm bone. This might cure the problem but without seeing you in action it is very difficult to come up with the reason and develop a solution for you.

Terry

Hi Terry, many thanks for the reply.
I am pulling the hand into my body ONCE the hand has come to the front of the chest, up to that point I am delivering quite straight.
I am not moving the hand outwards (to the right) to come round the body, from the back to the front, hence the differing action of the butt and corresponding action of the tip.
I don’t think I have the cue in tight on address position, just enough to gently feel the cue there in the address position. Are you saying – if you feel it, you are tight to the chest?
I will try the elbow drop method but I will be careful as I have had tennis and golf elbow in the past and will not do anything to start that up again.
I hold the butt with the first finger and thumb predominantly; the other fingers are loose around the butt. I will get my playing partner to see if I over tighten the hand as I come through but it does not feel that I tighten the grip and going into the palm.
I used to have a very open grip, space showing between the cue and the webbing of the thumb and first-finger, but now have the cue into the webbing itself (not too deep) and have found that since then the hand movement into the front of my body is happening.
My wrist does tend to be very straight, vertically, I may try a slightly cocked (outwards to the right) wrist position – before I try the elbow drop. But thinking about it I may find it hard not to straighten the wrist as I deliver, let’s see what happens
Many thanks for your input, I always find your posts very informative.
DeanH

[CoachGavin]

johno.

Some people can pick it up quite quickly whereas others take some time. The elbow needs to drop to keep the cue parallel and to close the back of the grip. Pull the cue back by opening the back of the hand so that the palm comes off the cue.Try and keep the elbow up as you take the cue back. Then as you deliver the cue naturally let the elbow drop as the cue goes through.

Watch from 1:50 of following

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwhyp...eature=related

Hope that helps.

[Terry Davidson]

Dean:

If the butt of the cue is moving to the left as your grip hand hits your chest then that should be 4-5 inches AFTER you hit the cueball and in theory at least it shouldn't effect the pot at all.

With your explanation I think the only thing that would stop this is moving the cue a touch more towards the tip of your forefinger and this will force more wrist cock to the right.

There should be somewhere between 30-60 degrees of angle between the forearm and the back of the right palm with 3-4 wrinkles in the skin there. It's more likely that players will turn the wrist on delivery when they DO NOT have a wrist cock, but in right-handed players this usually moves the butt to the left and tip to the right, which is your problem.

So, experiment with it. First (in practice with long blues) force a severe wrist cock with the cue well into the front of the fingers and see what happens. This should stop the movement you describe.

Then, relax the wrist cock just a bit until you find something that feels both comfortable and natural. I think you will find the movement to the right with the tip will stop unless you have another problem there, like your elbow way out to the right of the cue.

Terry