Eyes where? And when!?

[Citrus138]

I set my eyes on the cue ball from the begining of my approach to the table right up to the point until I'm set, then switch my eyes to the object ball. Probably not text book, but the game has always come pretty natural to me, so there are probably plenty of 'text book' flaws in my game that I don't notice, and since I tend to knock in ton breaks reasonably regulary, I'm not overly bothered about the 'flaws'.

[nrage]

I think hotpot has it 'right' .. I find, personally, that if my eyes are not really truly locked on the point of impact on the object ball (not the line of aim) then I will miss pots, this and (as you mentioned) bad initial alignment, bad cueing, or even simply picking the wrong point of impact are the main reasons I miss pots.

I am able to pot while looking at the line of aim, but only on a 1/2 ball shot where I am looking at the edge of the object ball. This is the exception rather than the rule for me.

I think it's actually just what I've learned/taught myself to do. My brain is doing the advanced calculation of where the line of aim is, relative to the point of impact, and doing it subconciously. So, I'm essentially relying on experience to find the line of aim as opposed to doing it conciously.

I did try to do it conciously for a while. There are a couple of geometrical tricks you can attempt to use. For example the point of contact will be always be equidistant from the overlapping edges of both balls or to think of it another way, you need to overlap the balls by 2x the distance from point of contact to the edge of the object ball. So if you know the point of contact, you can estimate the overlap (3/4, 1/2, 1/4, and all the fine gradiations between) and from that define the line of aim.

But, I found that this line of aim wold mostly be an indefinite point in space either inside the object ball or outside the edge and that without something definite to fix my eyes on, they would wander and my cue hand would follow them.

Perhaps I could train myself to not wander.. but it was easier to go back to the technique I had been using for years for pool instead, all I needed there was to teach my brain to use the new ball size in it's calculation, or in other words, just pot a lot more balls till it came 'naturally'.

[Theguywithaplan]

I have to say I find myself wondering sometimes why all this is important. Snooker is probably the only sport where it is possible to play blindfolded (once down on the shot of course). Once you have found the correct line of aim from above, why does it matter where the eyes are looking? Surely if you cue straight you pot the ball. And yet for some reason if we try to alter the way we sight we play far worse. I guess the brain is just an immensely powerful machine that we will never fully understand.

[lennon11]

my response would be not to go down this route too much,it can really mess your timing up!!,just do what comes naturally.

[nrage]

I have to say I find myself wondering sometimes why all this is important. Snooker is probably the only sport where it is possible to play blindfolded (once down on the shot of course). Once you have found the correct line of aim from above, why does it matter where the eyes are looking? Surely if you cue straight you pot the ball. And yet for some reason if we try to alter the way we sight we play far worse. I guess the brain is just an immensely powerful machine that we will never fully understand.

I've tried 'potting blind' and it worked surprisingly well on the pool table here at work. I've tried it a couple of times on a snooker table and once managed to pot a long blue with the white on baulk.

I think the effect of the eyes in snooker has something to do with hard-wired hand-eye co-ordination in the brain. The hands seem to want to follow the eyes without requiring conscious thought.

If you're a motor cycle rider you get told to look where you want to go and your hands/body seem to naturally 'make it happen'.

Likewise there are numerous cases (perhaps old wives tales) of drivers accidently driving into the only obstacle on a flat featureless plain, the reason given is 'target fixation', their eyes fixated on it and their hands simply followed.

I've had my own related experience with it.. I used to play a lot of indoor cricket. One day when I was fielding in close on the off-side, the batsman hit one across the front of me, my eyes followed it, and I turned toward where it was going expecting to see it hit the netting to my right.. it didn't, I was confused, then I looked down and saw the ball in my right hand. Caught entirely by reflex and without conscious thought of moving my hand.

I think it also explains why some players, who don't cue straight, still manage to pot balls. Their eyes 'steer' the hand in the correct way to make it hit the white where it needs to go, the cue action is not straight but curved and requires perfect timing/co-ordination, which the brain is capable of - but not all the time.

[Welshsteve]

I generally "imagine" a cue ball touching the object ball exactly where I want to hit it. I aim to hit this full ball and "keep my eye" on this imaginery ball throughout my back swing, pause and cue delivery.

Of course, the key to any of this is making sure your body doesn't move through the shot. As Terry says, as long as you have sighted the shot correctly and keep your body still and straight, it shoudl work for you.

There's a chap that plays in the Coventry & District League called Ian Bown, who defies all this. He doesn't get down on the shot, practically standing up, yet he knocks in 80s, 90s and tons for fun. Crazy!! LOL

[vendetta_revived]

Does line of aim go anywhere else than the point of impact ? I'm of the opinion that the line of aim goes directly from the cue ball to the point of impact on the object ball right ? :-s

Anyway, @Topic : When I walk into the shot and get down on it, my eyes are always fixed on the object ball (at the point of impact), then I feather the cue, my eyes stay on the object ball when I take my elbow backwards, and then it comes to the cue ball when I bring it forward, this happens 2 times and then my eyes are on the object ball on my backswing all the way to delivery.

[exolon]

Does line of aim go anywhere else than the point of impact ? I'm of the opinion that the line of aim goes directly from the cue ball to the point of impact on the object ball right ? :-s

No, the line of aim through the centre of the cueball won't intersect with the object ball if it's more than half ball - the line of aim is offset from the point of impact by the radius of the cue ball. If you aimed directly at the point of impact on the object ball, you'd always hit it thick, more noticeably when it's a thin cut.

e.g. if you imagine a virtual cueball touching the object ball at the correct position to pot it, the line of aim goes through the middle of the white and the middle of that virtual cueball - not the place where the white will actually connect with the object ball.

As nrage said, the "point of aim" is often empty space, which is difficult to visually fixate on. I used to try to imagine a virtual cueball and aim at that - which didn't work. Then I tried mentally calculating the actual point of aim, extending a line from the impact point by the cueball's radius - which didn't work.
Then I realised that I don't consciously calculate or visualise where to place my feet while walking or running, and that it's exactly the sort of mental activity that should probably be left to the subconscious which will do a better more relaxed job anyway, and I have too many other problems in my game to be consciously working out where to hit the ball

[Terry Davidson]

Well put exolon, and probably much better than when I tried to explain it.

I believe finding the correct potting angle (actually aiming line of the cue) will be automatic if a player gives himself the proper feedback by staying down on the shot.

The brain handles it just fine and it's an unconcious thing

Terry

[Welshsteve]

....
e.g. if you imagine a virtual cueball touching the object ball at the correct position to pot it, the line of aim goes through the middle of the white and the middle of that virtual cueball - not the place where the white will actually connect with the object ball.
...

Exact method I use :snooker:

[stephenm2682]

so does this cancel out the looking at the object ball contact point? because that's what i try and do.

[Terry Davidson]

My advice would be to keep looking at BOB (Back Of Ball) which is your visual aiming point (not the cue's aiming point though except on straight pots).

In saying that, if you could GUARANTEE that you do not move once your bridge hand hits the table then it dosn't really matter where you're looking since you SHOULD be able to pot the ball with your eyes closed!

However, I would still recommend eyes on object ball at time of strike.

Terry

[exolon]

In saying that, if you could GUARANTEE that you do not move once your bridge hand hits the table then it dosn't really matter where you're looking since you SHOULD be able to pot the ball with your eyes closed!

So if you get down on the shot and the cue tip isn't pointing directly at the centre of the white... Is it a bad idea to adjust it even before feathering starts?

[iancafc]

basically you need to be looking at the object ball when you fire but before that when you feather up you need to look at both bit like this


white object white object white object and fire

did anyone get that

[vmax4steve]

The brain handles it just fine and it's an unconcious thing

Terry

It's like archery, using a bow to propel an arrow, you notch the arrow in the middle of the bowstring and then aim at the target. You don't look at the arrow when releasing the bowstring, you look at the target.
In snooker your cue is your bowstring, not your arrow, the white is your arrow and the object ball is your target, not the pocket.