some coaching here needed.

[stephenm2682]

firstly is regarding the CCP, is this needed to keep the cue on line, say if i need bottom spin, do i get down on the shot then lower the cue or get down with the cue already on target for bottom then lower my body to the cue?

secondly is recently i'm over cutting shots, even on some full ball shots i'm hitting half ball, not sure if it's because i'm choosing the wrong position on the object ball, or just bad follow-through, what's your thought on this?

[nrage]

firstly is regarding the CCP, is this needed to keep the cue on line, say if i need bottom spin, do i get down on the shot then lower the cue or get down with the cue already on target for bottom then lower my body to the cue?

Depends who you are.. some players cue up to the bottom all the time and then rely on timing to hit the spot they actually want. I think Jimmy White used to do this?

Nic Barrows (at least in the vid I've seen) recommends you get down with the cue in the place you intend to hit, and that you bring the chest to the cue, never the cue to the chest.

If you think about it, moving the cue anywhere i.e. feathering or bring it to the chest before you have it 'locked' in place has got to be a bad idea, right?

secondly is recently i'm over cutting shots, even on some full ball shots i'm hitting half ball, not sure if it's because i'm choosing the wrong position on the object ball, or just bad follow-through, what's your thought on this?

Are these long range? If you're missing a center ball pot by up to half the ball I think it has to be bad cueing .. because with full ball you know where you're aiming.

[stephenm2682]

yeah the full ball ones are long range i'm hitting half ball ish. but the ones i'm missing by hitting really thin are say cuts into corner pockets, anything under half ball so quarter and three quarter ball pots.

[stephenm2682]

anyone have any tips to stop hitting the white with unintentional sidespin? i try to run the white down the spots and sometimes not all, i'm putting a bit of right on it especially if i hit it harder.

[Freddie Ng]

anyone have any tips to stop hitting the white with unintentional sidespin? i try to run the white down the spots and sometimes not all, i'm putting a bit of right on it especially if i hit it harder.

Did you twist you wrist unintentionly ?

[jayleedenog]

Might be ur stance, ur cueing motion, and how u hold the cue?

Just a wild guess, maybe u r not holding the cue with ur wrist staight.

[nrage]

anyone have any tips to stop hitting the white with unintentional sidespin? i try to run the white down the spots and sometimes not all, i'm putting a bit of right on it especially if i hit it harder.

Ahh.. this explains the long pots you're missing. Any side will cause the white to squirt off to the side, and if played with an elevated cue gives you swerve back the other way as well.

To figure out where it's going wrong you need to break it down and analyze each part of the action and try to feel or see exactly what you're doing. It could be one of many things:
a. bridge hand unstable/moving
b. bridge hand in the wrong place, not centered
c. cue tip not in centered
d. cue action has sideways movement due to:
- body movement
- shoulder movement
- elbow movement

So..

1. A good exercise which might give you an idea immediately is to play the spots, but do not feather at all, and play the shot with your eyes closed. Play the shot slowly, and really concentrate on feeling what your body is doing.

Let us know how that goes, can you get the white up and back and on or very close to the spots.

2. Next, place some chalk on the rail behind the black spot, in line with all the spots. I lay my cue on the table, over black and pink and fairly close to the end rail and use that as a guide. You want it as exact as possible.

Play the spots again, this time get down, don't feather, and play it slowly (eyes open this time, focused on the chalk). Where does the white go? If you find you consistently hit the rail to the left of the chalk but comes back fairly close to the spots then you're probably adding RHS and squirting to the left, then spinning off the rail back to the right.

3. If you've determined you are in fact adding RHS, then play #2 above but concentrate as you get down on the shot to place your cue dead center on the while. Then, when you play the shot focus on the white, not the chalk, and watch the cue strike the ball. Again, play slowly so you can see the cue contact the white. Does it strike the center? Does this change the path of the white?

Here you may not hit the chalk on every shot, as you're looking at the white, but look specifically for evidence of spin off the rail due to side, i.e. of it hits left and comes back right then you have added RHS.

.. a common cause of unintentional side spin is body, shoulder, etc movement. This movement gets worse when you play with power, and that's why most people add more side with power.

.. a common cause of body, shoulder, etc movement is a cue action without a front and rear pause, which tries to accelerate too quickly. A smooth cue action has no jerky/jabby movements at all. It should accelerate slowly from the front pause, to 1/2 way, then decelerate to a stop at the rear pause. From the rear pause it accelerates at a constant rate and does not decelerate until the hand hits the chest.

To get a feel for this play some soft shots, and really concentrate on the hand and the acceleration. Start with an exageratedly slow action and slowly pick up speed. When you get it right it kinda feels like you're pushing the cue into/through the white, as opposed to hitting it with the cue.

It's more like throwing a javelin, than thrusting with a spear if you've ever done either of those.. and it's a bit like a push/flick shot with a hockey stick.

[stephenm2682]

thanks nrage i'll be trying that later, in reply to the last part about pushing through the white, i have been messing with that method for about a week now, i used to push the white but for some reason recently i've just been hitting it, so maybe i'm not getting through the ball as much as i'd like. maybe jabby. lol so think push shot?

[stephenm2682]

i had a go at running down the spots today aiming at the chaulk on the cush behind the spots, it varied about 3/5 were bang on line.

also i'm not happy with my stance at the mo cause i feel like all my weight is on my back leg which is vertical but when i look at the pro's it seems to lean like \ or is this a optical illusion on tv? If i try to put more weight on my left leg then i feel slanted and uncomfortable.

[nrage]

i had a go at running down the spots today aiming at the chaulk on the cush behind the spots, it varied about 3/5 were bang on line.

3/5 is not bad. Each time I practice I start with this, simply to get my arm moving. I think it also helps me get into the mindset about how hard to hit the ball etc.

also i'm not happy with my stance at the mo cause i feel like all my weight is on my back leg which is vertical but when i look at the pro's it seems to lean like \ or is this a optical illusion on tv? If i try to put more weight on my left leg then i feel slanted and uncomfortable.

Everyone is different, so while you might look at the pros and try to emulate them, the most important thing is being comfortable and delivering the cue straight. Your 3/5 above tells us you're mostly there, but perhaps not as consistent as you want/need to be.

I suspect you're slightly too close to the white, and therefore not leaning forward into the shot. A slight forward lean puts a little more weight onto the bridge hand and forearm (if it's on the table bed) and allows you to bend the front leg a little more to shift some of the weight, without feeling uncomfortable. You might also have the front foot too close (side to side) to the back foot, a wider stance will let you bend the front knee more, without feeling off balance and uncomfortable.

To find the recommended stance you have to first work out where your grip hand should be, so..


Here is how you find the 'recommended' grip:-

(Thanks to Tom Butcher..)
1. place the white just in front of the brown spot (line the near edge of the white up with the spot).

2. place your bridge hand on the table, so that the point where the cue rests is on the edge of the D. The distance from bridge to white is now 11.5 inches (anywhere from 10 to 12 is recommended).

3. get down on the shot, place the cue tip as close to the white as possible. get a mate to move your grip hand forward or backward on the cue, until the angle between the forearm and cue is 90 degrees. As the cue is on a slight incline up, the forearm will be on a similar incline backward of true vertical.

4. Wrap some electrical tape round the cue just in front of the first finger, this is your guide. Always grip the cue, on a normal shot, just behind the tape. On shots off the rail, adjust by gripping the tape with your 1st, 2nd or 3rd finger as required. experiment, and get your mate to help you learn which finger you need for each bridge length.


Here is how you find the 'recommended' stance:-

(Thanks to Terry Davidson..)
1. place the white just in front of the brown spot (line the near edge of the white up with the spot).

2. grip the cue in your normal position. stand behind the shot and lay the cue out in front of you, on the same slight upward incline you would have on a normal shot.

3. take a 2nd cue or rest and stand it vertically, touching your grip hand at about the 1st finger. Place a coin on the floor next to where the cue is standing, directly under your grip hand.

(Thanks to Neil Selman..)
4. Stand 1 easy step back from the coin. Walk into the shot by stepping with your back foot, onto the coin.

5. Place your front foot a little more than shoulder width to the side, and the toe 1/2 a foot length forward of the back foot toe.

(Thanks to Nic Barrows..)
6. Get down on the shot. How does it feel. Close your eyes, feel for anything tight or uncomfortable. Test for the perfect position of the front foot by first moving left and right to extremes and then settling into the most comfortable middle ground. Likewise front and back (but not as far).

7. Once you are in the most comfortable position, try to fix it in your mind, look down and try and remember the relative placement of the feet - so you can double check.

8. Get up, walk back to 1 easy step from the coin. Walk back in and go straight into the position remembered. Look down, check. If it's wrong, repeat 6. If it's correct, get back up, repeat 8 until you're happy you can get down every time.

9. Get down, look back at the hip next to the grip hand, how close is it to the grip? Is there approx 1in clearance? If not add a little more bend to the front leg/knee. This may make you uncomfortable, in which case remember the bend and go back to 6 with that in mind.

10. Get down, check your bridge hand is still going to the correct place, if not, repeat 8 until it also is correct.


I would do this for the first 5-10 mins of practice until you do it right first time, every time. Practicing technique like this should only be done in short spells, and then you shouldn't consciously think about it, as you go about the rest of your practice, but if you miss a pot, double check things like 4, 5, 9 and 10.

Let us know how it goes.

[stephenm2682]

nrage, so it's 10-12" of cue from the V of the bridge hand?

[nrage]

nrage, so it's 10-12" of cue from the V of the bridge hand?

From the V of the bridge hand to the tip/white ball, yes. If you're like me, and you started with pool, this feels like a lot to start with. But, eventually it starts to feel 'normal'.

[stephenm2682]

yeah indeed the same, used to play pool in york for many yrs.

always wondered why some players hold the cue further down the shaft on screw shots, i've never done this and always thought it was strange, think ken doherty and john higgins in particular, they must have about 4" or more of the butt end sticking out of there grip hand

[stephenm2682]

also, the CCP, how can you lower the body onto the cue without lifting the cue to the chest? i mean because you have to get down first surely to elevate the elbow behind your head which in turn lifts it to the chest? don't see how you can hold the cue to the white then get down without doing the above???

[nrage]

also, the CCP, how can you lower the body onto the cue without lifting the cue to the chest? i mean because you have to get down first surely to elevate the elbow behind your head which in turn lifts it to the chest? don't see how you can hold the cue to the white then get down without doing the above???

The key factor here is just to make sure that once you put the cue on line, you're not moving it again, until you have it braced in place by hand, chin, chest and hand.

So, as you get down you put the cue on the table, in it's final position, while your head is up and able to see the line of aim clearly, then move your chin/chest down onto the cue.

An exaggerated example of what not to do would be putting the cue on chin and chest while standing upright, then trying to put it on the line of aim from there. It can be done, I'm sure, but your head is further down the cue and you can see less of it, making it hard to put it correctly on the line of aim.

This is one reason Nic Barrows always recommends getting back up, if you need to make any adjustments. If you adjust down on the shot you are likely to end up with the cue across the line of aim somewhat, simply because you can only 'see' the last 1/3rd of it.