Timing and final pause issue!

[EvilDealer]

I think this thread has possibly changed the way I play the game forever!.. i tried what terry said yesterday and it felt so much more natural as I have been having trouble with these issues myself. Before I had my eyes locked on the object ball on the front pause but found I wasn't hitting the cueball where I wanted consistently.
Its a testiment to these forums and the great coaches here that I can learn so much
Thanks :snooker:

[EvilDealer]

I just wanted to do a bit of a follow to this thread now, mainly because I feel this is a massive deal with ones cue action. I played in the league tonight for the first time with this new sighting technique and noticed two things. First of all let me say I was pleased with my performance. Only one frame but two decent-ish breaks sealed it
The first thing I noticed was i was playing alot slower, which I don't generally think is a good thing. maybe I am still getting used to getting my eyes right.
The second is a slight loss in touch with the white to due a pause.
Its only been a week so I guess the more I use it the quicker and more natural it will be. I do feel though that in pressure situations, the sightings and slower cue action helps consistancy.

Terry and The Doctor and other coaches I would be very interested to hear what you have to say regarding both issuies, especially the loss of touch with the white. I guess because I have sperated the back swing and follow through it just takes time :snooker:

[Terry Davidson]

evil:

I believe the slower play is because you're concentrating on your rhythm in order to change it and that this pace will pick up once the new rhythm becomes ingrained into your technique.

By the way, it's never a good idea to concentrate on technique when you're in a match. Changes in technique should only be worked on during solo practice.

As to loss of 'touch' with the cueball, I can't say. What I found once I started to develop a rear pause (I'm not totally there yet) is I was actually hitting the cueball BETTER and in stun, screw and run-through shots I had to re-learn my power application. I did this using the line-up as I always have an easy shot.

One thing which may help, I'm not sure. I got this tip from Steve Davis when I asked on his blog how a player can develop a rear pause when he had been playing for 40 years without one. What Steve recommended was from the front pause I watch the ferrule with my eyes until the end of the backswing and then switch my eyes and focus on the object ball.

I found this exercise not only gave me a natural rear pause but also helped with having an absolutely straight backswing PLUS it also slowed it down to where I was positively controlling the backswing. In a little time I was able to play my normal eye rhythm (which is switching to the object ball at the front pause) and still kept the straight (and slow) backswing and also the discernible rear pause, which helps me drive the cue through the cueball (accelerate through) much better.

Terry

[EvilDealer]

Thanks Terry. So you have reverted back to looking at the object ball all the way through the back swing now that you have got used to the technique?

I find its a hard habit to break, looking at the objectball on the front pause I mean. Thats what I have been doing for some time

[The Doctor]

I would suggest the change in rhythm is down to your changes in your game and will settle a bit when it becomes more natural. I would also agree with Terry in that working on your technique be a job for solo practise.
With regards pace of shot and losing the White, this will more than likely be down to not controlling the length of backswing.
There is always an argument on what is best a long backswing to allow smooth delivery or a more controlled backswing. The first option might look smooth and can effective but it will require you to judge how fast to accelerate the cue and in fact will often result in a player decelerating through the cue ball. The second option will require you to control the length of backswing and in turn give you a more content cue speed. I would argue that the 2nd option is easier to master as t has less variables in it's method but with the likes of John Higgins and Stephen Maguire using the first option it can be argued there is no right or wrong. So it all boils down to finding a method that is easy for you to replicate and one that makes you feel right and enjoy playing the game.

[thedynamite]

I really get why you would put a pause in you cue action when you have already made a ton and knock in 80s. the pause wont improve your ability to score heavier infact it wont change anything. There is no right or wrong cue action i think once you have learnt the basics practice is the best learner

[Terry Davidson]

dynamite:

I would disagree and say that if a player can get a rear pause into his natural rhythm it will benefit him and improve his game.

The rear pause has 2 benefits, the first being it disconnects the backswing from the delivery, so if the backswing is just a little crooked and off-line there will not be an attempt by the brain to compensate during the more dynamic delivery and drive the cue in the opposite direction.

Secondly, the rear pause facilitates the 'drive' or acceleration THROUGH the cueball and encourages the player to drive his grip hand all the way through to his chest consistently, which will definitely improve his game.

With the exception of Peter Ebdon and Mark Allen I believe all the top pros use a rear pause so I figure a player can't go wrong if he tries to do what the majority of the pros are doing.

Evil:

I tried a lot of coaches in an attempt to develop a rear pause and frankly only Steve Davis came up with one that actually works, which is watching the ferrule coming back then moving the eyes to the object ball at the end of the backswing, which will give a player a natural pause while he's focusing his eyes on the object ball.

I found this method was GREAT for developing a natural rear pause, HOWEVER I found my potting and cueball control went back a bit and I think it may have been me rushing the shot a bit or else a little movement while I was shifting my eyes, I'm just not sure.

So I used this method from Steve to get the rhythmic 'feel' of having a rear pause and it seemed (at least to me) to be totally natural, and once I got that rhythm I decided to revert back to using a slightly longer FRONT pause and moving my eyes to the object ball then which is the way I've always played.

Now I believe I have the best of both worlds, as I have a very nice and natural rear pause however I also have the confidence I get with focusing on the object ball at the front pause. I think having the rear pause is really helping me to 'drive' the cue and accelerate better through the cueball.

In fact, I haven't had a century for over 2 months due to a really bad habit I developed in 'clutching' the cue too early in the delivery and today I just fell over the line and had a 101 this afternoon (missed a difficult 2nd last red for a 144 which would have been nice).

I will also tell you I really found loosening the grip substantially helped too, so in solo practice I am having the cue just resting on the pads of my first two fingers with the 'evil' air-gap between the butt of the cue and the web between thumb and forefinger. This 'air-gap' is frowned on by every coach I know but I had to over-compensate in order for me to stop clutching the cue and decelerating through the cueball.

But the point is, I found this very loose grip also helped to promote the natural rear pause and I can't explain why that is, but it does

Terry

[EvilDealer]

Ok, it seems that initially that I mis understood about the sighting. What you were saying about watching the ferule was what I thought was the way forward, not just a practice thing, thats why i did it in a match. I wasn't trying to experiment, i thought this was the way forward.
It didnt matter though because I was desperate.I have been struggling and the fact I had something to concentrate on probably helped. I now am sure what I know what I have to to..... all i need is practice. thankyou :snooker:

[cris0000food]

If your using a heavy cue your arm could be getting tired over time if your playing gets progressively worse. Also breathing is very important in competition. You must be relaxed obviously. A few deep breathes before a shot should help.

[Theguywithaplan]

dynamite:

I would disagree and say that if a player can get a rear pause into his natural rhythm it will benefit him and improve his game.

The rear pause has 2 benefits, the first being it disconnects the backswing from the delivery, so if the backswing is just a little crooked and off-line there will not be an attempt by the brain to compensate during the more dynamic delivery and drive the cue in the opposite direction.

Secondly, the rear pause facilitates the 'drive' or acceleration THROUGH the cueball and encourages the player to drive his grip hand all the way through to his chest consistently, which will definitely improve his game.

With the exception of Peter Ebdon and Mark Allen I believe all the top pros use a rear pause so I figure a player can't go wrong if he tries to do what the majority of the pros are doing.

Evil:

I tried a lot of coaches in an attempt to develop a rear pause and frankly only Steve Davis came up with one that actually works, which is watching the ferrule coming back then moving the eyes to the object ball at the end of the backswing, which will give a player a natural pause while he's focusing his eyes on the object ball.

I found this method was GREAT for developing a natural rear pause, HOWEVER I found my potting and cueball control went back a bit and I think it may have been me rushing the shot a bit or else a little movement while I was shifting my eyes, I'm just not sure.

So I used this method from Steve to get the rhythmic 'feel' of having a rear pause and it seemed (at least to me) to be totally natural, and once I got that rhythm I decided to revert back to using a slightly longer FRONT pause and moving my eyes to the object ball then which is the way I've always played.

Now I believe I have the best of both worlds, as I have a very nice and natural rear pause however I also have the confidence I get with focusing on the object ball at the front pause. I think having the rear pause is really helping me to 'drive' the cue and accelerate better through the cueball.

In fact, I haven't had a century for over 2 months due to a really bad habit I developed in 'clutching' the cue too early in the delivery and today I just fell over the line and had a 101 this afternoon (missed a difficult 2nd last red for a 144 which would have been nice).

I will also tell you I really found loosening the grip substantially helped too, so in solo practice I am having the cue just resting on the pads of my first two fingers with the 'evil' air-gap between the butt of the cue and the web between thumb and forefinger. This 'air-gap' is frowned on by every coach I know but I had to over-compensate in order for me to stop clutching the cue and decelerating through the cueball.

But the point is, I found this very loose grip also helped to promote the natural rear pause and I can't explain why that is, but it does

Terry

Terry, can I just ask why coaches strongely reccomend no air gap? I made a thread about it a while ago hoping you'd answer.
I think I grip the cue with the whole hand, when I pull it back my thumb opens slightly with the fingers, causing there to be a slight air gap. Is this something I should work on getting rid of?

[snookergr]

dynamite:

So I used this method from Steve to get the rhythmic 'feel' of having a rear pause and it seemed (at least to me) to be totally natural, and once I got that rhythm I decided to revert back to using a slightly longer FRONT pause and moving my eyes to the object ball then which is the way I've always played.

Now I believe I have the best of both worlds, as I have a very nice and natural rear pause however I also have the confidence I get with focusing on the object ball at the front pause. I think having the rear pause is really helping me to 'drive' the cue and accelerate better through the cueball.

Terry

Terry,

Regarding the eyes, I use the same procedure like you, however I have an issue which confused me a bit and I would like to know what you think about it.
Which one is better of the following and is it a matter of personal rythm ?
1. At the front pause eyes on object ball before final backswing and alternatively
2. At the front pause eyes on the object ball at the start, during or the end of the final backswing.

Particularly when you move the eyes onto the object ball before the start of the final pull back, it seems to me that you have no peripheral vision of the cue on the backswing whereas when at the front pause and during the backswing you take your eyes onto the object ball it seems that you have a more clear view of how the cue is coming back on line or not, of course you might have less time to bring your eyes onto the spot of the object ball (here comes the slow backswing into play and the age of the player).

I still haven't figured out which one is better BUT I have to say I played my best snooker when switching to the object ball at the front pause.....! So I might stick with that even though it DOES PLAY with my confidence at times since I do not "see" the cue on the final backswing to check whether or not it comes back on a straight line.

Hope the above makes sense, thank you beforehand :-)

snookergr

[Terry Davidson]

I'll try and answer all the questions.

Air-Gap...I have no reason why most coaches recommend no air gap but they all do. I believe it's because the grip is supposed to be at the top of the thumb and forefinger to allow the cue to push the fingers open on the backswing, allow the thumb to slide a bit over the forefinger and allow the back of the palm to come off the cue from the address position (where it should be touching the cue).

On the eye rhythm...the 'ideal' and most popular eye rhythm amongst the top players is flicking back and forth during feathering, lock on cueball at the front pause and then somewhere near either the end of the backswing or at the rear pause to swing up to the object ball and lock there through the delivery.

However, I have found going to the object ball at the front pause to be helpful to me but as snookergr says the cue is no longer in your peripheral vision and you have no idea if your backswing was straight. But there is another point which overcomes this and that is the rear pause which disconnects the backswing from the delivery and overcomes any small glitch in the backswing.

As to what I did...I just couldn't get a rear pause from any other recommendations I had from various coaches, mostly they were concerned with counting to 5 or something similar at the end of the backswing and that felt really unnatural and really screwed things up. For me the trick was to get a rear pause into my technique which 'felt' natural and the Steve Davis reconmmendation of watching the ferrule during the backswing achieved this for me although I found my potting and cueball control were lacking a bit using this eye rhythm (perhaps because of my rushing the shot and not focusing on the object ball properly).

So then I reverted back to eyes on object ball at the front pause and I found I still retained the natural rear pause but my potting and cueball control returned to normal or perhaps even a bit better as I was 'driving through' the cueball better.

So what does all of this tell the student? First of all, eye rhythm is important and controls your timing. Secondly, you can play in a match and use the Steve Davis method of watching the ferrule or end of the cue during the backswing OR you can lock your eyes on the spot on the cueball you want to hit and the cue will remain in your peripheral vision.

The important thing I think is as long as your eyes have returned to the object ball at some time during the delivery any natural rhythm you have is fine. In saying that, of course there are a couple of top pros who look at the cueball throughout their delivery and there are also a couple more who flick their eyes back to the cueball during the delivery.

I think the trick is, no matter what you choose to do you MUST allow time for the eyes to lock onto and focus on the object ball before the moment of strike.

Any more questions class?

Terry

[snookergr]

thanks :-)

[The Doctor]

As with everything there will always be a method that suits you best. To even say that eyes on the object ball is a must, is something that could be argued when you consider some top players have their eyes on the white at delivery.
I would however, recommend eyes on the object ball at delivery.
Try one of the following 3 options:
1: Eyes on cueball at front pause, then move eyes to object ball and keep them there all the way through the backswing and follow through.
2: Eyes on cueball at front pause, then during final backswing move to object ball and keep them there all the way through delivery.
3: Eyes on cueball at front pause and keep them there all the way through final backswing, then at end of backswing(pause) change to object ball and keep them there all way through delivery.

Once you have found one that feel right and gives you just about the right amount of time to focus, fine tune it a little trying to move eyes just a little earlier and a little later and you will find one that feel just right.

[hotpot]

Some excellent replies and advise here from coaches who know their onions .

I use the first method Doctor suggests , keeping my eye on the wite and changing to object ball at the front pause .

Another thing i found that helps with my long potting is to use an imaginary line the white has to take to the point of contact . So youre not only concetrating where you want to hit the object ball , youre also conscious of the line you need to follow , if you can focus on the two together its a great aid .