cue arm&shoulder

[j6uk]

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There's a pic of me trying to get into position today. I know the camera is not directly in front of me, but it looks on that picture like if it was, my shoulder would be perfectly hidden. Yet when I'm looking at myself in the mirror on that photo, I can see my shoulder sticking out!!!!

Have I got massive shoulders?? Lol!!!!

nothing like a kitchen workout to see you right, and a nice toasty oven to get the elbow moving. looks better. how does it feel?

[tedisbill]

Right, here's a video for your viewing pleasure as well.

http://youtu.be/q3nwArxho1c

[tedisbill]

image.jpg
There's a pic of me trying to get into position today. I know the camera is not directly in front of me, but it looks on that picture like if it was, my shoulder would be perfectly hidden. Yet when I'm looking at myself in the mirror on that photo, I can see my shoulder sticking out!!!!

Have I got massive shoulders?? Lol!!!!

[vmax4steve]

I've got not idea what the hell is going on.

Ted mate,

Set up a straight blue into the middle pocket from the green side of the table with the cue ball about two feet from the blue. Take what would be your normal standing position, right foot on the line of aim, but then move your feet so that your body is square on to and facing the yellow pocket.
Turn your head to face the blue, turn your left foot also to face the blue while keeping your right foot facing the yellow pocket, do not turn your body to face the blue and get down into your stance with your body facing the yellow pocket and your head and left foot turned to face the blue.

This is the classic 45 degree boxer stance and will put your shoulder behind your head as you will then be pointing your cue across your body.

If you find that you can't play this way then revert back to your natural style and simply concentrate on not dropping the shoulder into the stroke before the strike.

[Terry Davidson]

Your are absolutely correct CoachGavin.

I am having a bit of trouble trying to understand fully what you're talking about. Would you please put up 3 pictures for me, one from directly in front where you are in the address position and aiming directly at the camera, showing from cueball to top of elbow, one from the grip hand side showing from top of elbow to hips and one from directly behind showing feet to top of elbow.

My alignment has the chest as close to the vertical as I can get it with the top of the arm parallel to the cue, the elbow right over the cue and the shoulder hidden behind the head and I think that's about as good as you can go.

Terry

[j6uk]

Just got my Dad to get down on the shot in the kitchen (he's crap by the way, only plays for fun). He got down, none of this hip twisting, his chest is pretty much facing the shot and his cue shoulder is easily hidden and in line with the shot.

For me, if I drop my left hip, make sure my right foot is pointing away from the shot, really twist into it, I still can't seem to get my shoulder fully covered.
I've got not idea what the hell is going on.

i'm right handed and my feet are: L is 12pm and R is 1pm. you could even go to 2pm on the right foot but keep the left pointing straight in line with the shot at 12

[tedisbill]

Just got my Dad to get down on the shot in the kitchen (he's crap by the way, only plays for fun). He got down, none of this hip twisting, his chest is pretty much facing the shot and his cue shoulder is easily hidden and in line with the shot.

For me, if I drop my left hip, make sure my right foot is pointing away from the shot, really twist into it, I still can't seem to get my shoulder fully covered.

I've got not idea what the hell is going on.

[j6uk]

Even Steve Davis him self has lost the alignment now.
.

really, since when?

[hsn]

Your are absolutely correct CoachGavin.

[hsn]

It's a pleasure to read your comments Terry. The whole point of my post was to share my own experiences and try to point out that the perfect alignment helps a lot in keeping the cue straight through the delivery. Additionally, the perfect alignment is both technically sound and aesthetically appealing. There won't be any jutting out shoulder to hide!

It may be a new idea that's why it's not a common trait among the pros. To be a better play doesn't merely depend on how perfect your alignment is. The perfect alignment is just a tool to help keep the cue straight through and take out the opposing forcing working in the upper arm otherwise.

You'll notice that the pros who have got better alignments than others tend to maintain a high standard of play as long as their alignment remains the same. The main thing in the perfect alignment is that your upper arm doesn't exert side ways forces when you deliver the cue through. Otherwise you'll have to train hard to cope with those forces.

Consider the perfect alignment as a hinge that folds perfectly upon its other half.

Even Steve Davis him self has lost the alignment now.

Please do experiment with it and let me know if you find it useful. But please beware you may have to build you cue action from the scratch up to fully benefit from it.

In my avatar picture even though my shoulder is hidden by the head 'hsn' is still correct in that my upper arm is actually parallel to the cue rather than being exactly over the cue. I must admit I've never noticed this before and haven't really thought about it.

In my defense though that is a posed picture as you can see the camera remote under my bridge hand as that's the only way I can take a picture when I'm by myself. I do take videos for analysis of myself once in awhile and I'll check the next one as I believe my set-up has my upper arm and elbow right over the cue.

hsn...the 2 worst pros for upper arm alignment are Mark Williams and Jamie Cope. Are you saying Mark Williams would have been a much better player had he corrected his alignment or is it a case of a player with a different physique might find a different upper arm alignment more beneficial to him?

Another point in the opposite direction...as you say Ronnie is not aligned that way on a lot of shots and also Higgins and Hendry (to name a couple) have their upper arms inward towards their body more with the elbows over towards their back instead of right over the cue.

Is it not really a matter of 'different strokes for different folks?' As this is not a common trait and alignment for any of the pros?

Terry


Terry

[hsn]

Thanks again for the explanation hsn.

I'm trying to understand exactly what you mean, but it's all a little strange because I'm just not used to cueing like this at all.

If I stand facing slightly to the right of where I think I should be, doesn't that mean I won't be on the line of the shot properly though? I don't really understand that.

Hi again and my pleasure. Yes it does seem strange at first, I've been there too.

Your right foot will still be directly beneath your cue if you face slightly (at 45 degrees to be exact) to the right of the line of the shot.

Being on the line of the shot literally means to put your right foot in the line and NOT necessarily to face (your chest) in that direction.

Lets suppose you have to play a shot in this direction " | " you have to face in this " / " direction or even more so if your upper arm still won't align like Steve Davis'.

What you are used to do is you face almost parallel to the direction of the shot like this " direction of the shot = | direction of your face = | "

I'll try to provide some drawings and illustrations in my next post. Please do upload some fresh photos to give me an idea about what your cue arm looks like now.

Good luck.

[j6uk]

you might feel some discomfort through being off balance with maybe to much forward weight on your bridge arm and tension.
throw up a vid

[tedisbill]

Thanks again for the explanation hsn.

I'm trying to understand exactly what you mean, but it's all a little strange because I'm just not used to cueing like this at all.

If I stand facing slightly to the right of where I think I should be, doesn't that mean I won't be on the line of the shot properly though? I don't really understand that.

[hsn]

By looking at your recent photo upload you are making progress tedisbill. What you are doing is trying to pull your shoulder up bending your left leg and sticking your bottom out as far as it may go.

The discomfort in or between the shoulders is normal but please don't try to pull up your cue shoulder or bend your spine any more or you'll get strain.

Instead, add one more adjustment and your alignment will get like Steve Davis'.

"While standing in line of the shot face a little more to the right than you'd normally do. Turn by actually moving your feet not just the chest. Then get down onto the shot. You'll find yourself getting onto the shot with your chest VERTICAL to the table bed rather than HORIZONTAL. And you'd feel your cue pointing more to the left than it usually points to. I'd bet your alignment will become perfect with only a little pulling up of the cue shoulder if you try to do exactly what I'm saying.


You won't need to hide your shoulder behind your head because there won't be one jutting out!!!

I wonder why you haven't got the point yet while I've tried to elaborate it in several ways. You are doing everything else but (NOT) turning your face away (to the right) from the line of the shot.

Please do read CoachGavin's post as well. You may get my point in his words.

Good luck!

It's seems like I'm getting in position a little better now. Getting some discomfort in my left shoulder though. Is this normal considering I'm not used to being in this position?

[hsn]

CoachGavin you are absolutely correct. The perfect alignment helps to keep the cue straight through the delivery and saves you many years of practicing to get the delivery straight with any other alignment than the perfect one. Also, you have put it in perfectly right words that the chest must be facing to the right and the cue must be aiming to the left at an approximately 45 degrees to bring the shoulders in the correct position. (for right handed players)

The whole point is to get the shoulders in such a position that the perfect alignment is achieved automatically with very little effort. Otherwise struggling to pull the shoulder up isn't going to do the trick!

The alignment was the difference between you Gavin and your friend that your game improved muck quicker than his.

Judd and Ding have trained their muscles and if anyone follows my advise his stance will gradually become squarer overtime as his muscles get flexible enough.

tedisbill. When I first started my alignment was way out and I looked more like Nigel Bond. Apart from thinking that I looked ugly I thought it was also causing me to cue across. I worked on it in the mirror on my kitchen table for months but looking back it was probably the best change I made. A friend of mine didn't change and I'm sure that's why he didn't improve add much as me. The chest must be turned to the side to bring the shoulders into the correct position. It's probably easier with the boxer stance but judd and ding are square on and their alignment is good. At the moment you will probably find that your chest faces towards the floor when in your stance. You need the chest facing more to the side if you can. The alignment doesn't have to be perfect but it does help straight cueing for most people.