cue arm&shoulder

[hotpot]

Have to agree with others , there is nothing at all wrong with your set up , you may end up doing more harm than good by putting it under the microscope , id be focussed on other things like , pre shot routine , concentration , smooth delivery , shot selection etc .

[Byrom]

Right read most of this thread and I have changed my mind on this and here is why.

The mechanics of what he says is probably correct if you next watch your team mates match and stand directly in line with a player the ball he is going for and the pocket you can see a players alignment and you can tell before he strikes if he will pot it or if he is cueing across it - some players do align incorrectly at the back but as he said players even pro's do learn to push though correctly for them doing it in varying ways and perhaps whilst there are important things to work on in snooker I think alignment is one of those areas we should all work on and in our own way we all do already including me and you Terry.

You work on potting long blues - you do it your way and align your way - have you tried another way?

Basically - if not why not? working on getting the alignment and stance correct from the off in coaching is really a must before you move on to other areas all coaches already do it - and if this way helps a player to push the cue through straighter and more consistently than he did before what wrong with that? If it don't work nothing ventured nothing gained.

There are other areas to work on in snooker but if getting this right makes you improve your results and your game what is wrong with that? - this is why things like sight right was invented -

I work on finding the line on the baulk line - maybe a coaching lesson off this hsn getting me into the right shape on the shot - if I am not already there - might help me too. I am certainly going to give it a go first before I decide one way or the other if it works for me or not - will let ya know. Good thread with new ideas - love this forum for that.

[Terry Davidson]

Right read most of this thread and I have changed my mind on this and here is why.

The mechanics of what he says is probably correct if you next watch your team mates match and stand directly in line with a player the ball he is going for and the pocket you can see a players alignment and you can tell before he strikes if he will pot it or if he is cueing across it - some players do align incorrectly at the back but as he said players even pro's do learn to push though correctly for them doing it in varying ways and perhaps whilst there are important things to work on in snooker I think alignment is one of those areas we should all work on and in our own way we all do already including me and you Terry.

You work on potting long blues - you do it your way and align your way - have you tried another way?

Basically - if not why not? working on getting the alignment and stance correct from the off in coaching is really a must before you move on to other areas all coaches already do it - and if this way helps a player to push the cue through straighter and more consistently than he did before what wrong with that? If it don't work nothing ventured nothing gained.

There are other areas to work on in snooker but if getting this right makes you improve your results and your game what is wrong with that? - this is why things like sight right was invented -

I work on finding the line on the baulk line - maybe a coaching lesson off this hsn getting me into the right shape on the shot - if I am not already there - might help me too. I am certainly going to give it a go first before I decide one way or the other if it works for me or not - will let ya know. Good thread with new ideas - love this forum for that.

Just so you know, alignment is one of the first things I check with any student. I always start a session with just having them shoot the spots while I stand at the head of the table and I check their elbow, head, eyes, shoulder and then come around and check their stance. If I see any misalignment then the first thing I do is work on that and believe me it does help some students who had a really poor alignment.

If you have a student that can shoot the spots fairly well for 2 lengths of the table and then I move them up to 4 lengths of the table and then after that to check their grip pressure I have them try the same exercise with the 360 training cue which will tell me if they are tightening the grip too early, especially with 4 lengths.

However I didn't think alibadi was out of alignment much at all in his first photo, so why change that? After watching his video doing the line-up I figure his biggest problem is his timing and failure to accelerate through the cueball which is probably more important than having precise alignment. Of course it helps if the elbow is above the cue as that lessens the need for coordination to get the delivery straight, but he was only around 1" inside the cue which in my humble opinion is not a problem at all.

In the 90's when Hendry was king and winning everything his elbow was a bit inside the cue and he would raise it as he delivered the cue and that movement required precise coordination. I believe degrading hand/eye coordination as he got a little older started to cost him, especially in the long pot area but he was still able to run that beautiful 147 just before he retired.

So my thought are it's better to have the elbow above the cue right from the start so I guess I would agree with you. When I came back to snooker in 2005 my elbow was hanging out about 3" which I thought was way too much and I had to do some hard work to get it aligned as it used to be in the 80's when it hung in slightly, in fact about the same as alabadi started this exercise with.

Terry

[Byrom]

i have not seen alibadi play so cant comment and was really meaning in general terms - If you set off trying to get perfect or good alignment and encourage you students into the right shape on the shot then it can help - lot more to playing snooker as you mention and we are all different - Joe Swail for example is a pretty straight cueist - but his elbow is somewhere else altogether.

But if you build a house using straight and strong foundations from the off - the walls have less chance of falling down or being un-even later on and that is why this perfect alignment makes a bit of sense. Like a lot of players I never started off with any coaching - so it takes longer to iron out the bad habits - still trying now infact and I don't think a player ever stops learning this game.

I think it can be hard coming on here and listening to all the views - seeing what might or may not help you as their are differing views - you are right to apply your knowledge to a player individually - sorry if you think I was questioning this - I was not and did not mean it to sound like that.

End of the day talking about technical issues is hard on a forum because one size does not fit all - and much better done in person with a coach - That said I bet that thing -computer programme you use is useful in this regard too. you should put up a few examples - that might help get you a few on-line pupils but you probably have these already.

For me personally I think this perfect alignment hs and coach Gavin talk about is an area of my game I might tinker with for a few months see if I cant improve a bit myself I don't see any harm in trying - mind you I said that about the sighting thing and took me weeks to get that nonsense out of my head so I may well be wrong here too?

[itsnoteasy]

I think that accelerometer thingy Nic has(did you get one Terry) could be just what a lot of people need, me included , would get you slowly accelerating and continuing right through the cue ball. I don't feel I quit on the shot but I do feel I start off a bit quick which causes it's own problems.

[tedisbill]

I think that accelerometer thingy Nic has(did you get one Terry) could be just what a lot of people need, me included , would get you slowly accelerating and continuing right through the cue ball. I don't feel I quit on the shot but I do feel I start off a bit quick which causes it's own problems.

I don't think the actual gadget serves much purpose really. You can see easily when someone is too quick with their cue action.

I mean, you just said yourself that you start off too quick. All the gadget would do is confirm that. It's up to you to consciously slow everything down and get some more control.

I feel Alabadi has gone too far the other way. He looks so mechanical and "forced", you lose any natural feel on the shot.

[alabadi]

I think it can be hard coming on here and listening to all the views - seeing what might or may not help you as their are differing views - you are right to apply your knowledge to a player individually.

You are right byrom, it can be confusing when you have people with different views, i think the majority think i shouldn't change my setup and maybe they are right, however when one is struggling with his game he has to try different things to see if one or many changes can make improvements.

Terry might be right in that its not my alignment that is the issue, however i need to experiment to find out if it is or not. i will be taking Terry up on his offer to analyse and dissect a video of me playing straight blue from different angles to see if there are any underlying problems i am not aware of

[Cmbrstefan]

I think that accelerometer thingy Nic has(did you get one Terry) could be just what a lot of people need, me included , would get you slowly accelerating and continuing right through the cue ball. I don't feel I quit on the shot but I do feel I start off a bit quick which causes it's own problems.

I also wanted to include a slow start in to my cueing action, but the more i do it the more i focus on the action and bang i miss the pot. not every one is perfect and not every one needs the same.
What I do and mainly do is to gather All info, everything from good to bad, Analyze it and see what i could fit in to make potting and cueing more consistent.
i.e. i was advised to also wrap the 3 last fingers on the Grip hand tight on the cue ( to help me get the delivery more straight.) it did not fit me on the back swing, but now i realize that i don't open my hand as much as before. And in a result giving me a straighter delivery.

It is up to you how you are using the advises, only you will know, do what feels good for you. change bit by bit to get used to it not all at once.

[itsnoteasy]

I don't think the actual gadget serves much purpose really. You can see easily when someone is too quick with their cue action.

I mean, you just said yourself that you start off too quick. All the gadget would do is confirm that. It's up to you to consciously slow everything down and get some more control.

I feel Alabadi has gone too far the other way. He looks so mechanical and "forced", you lose any natural feel on the shot.

Ted I said the exact same thing , and I mean those exact words, when the original thread was put up about it. Nic then put up a video of changing someone's cueing using it and it was very noticeable the difference in the timing of the cue action, on the backswing , the pause ,and the forward swing.

[Terry Davidson]

I think that accelerometer thingy Nic has(did you get one Terry) could be just what a lot of people need, me included , would get you slowly accelerating and continuing right through the cue ball. I don't feel I quit on the shot but I do feel I start off a bit quick which causes it's own problems.

Yes I have one and have used it with Les Edwards. Since the slope of the line shows the speed of the backswing and delivery it does help to analyse the technique and also the newest version of the software allows you to compare your speed and length with some of the best pros. I think it helped Les realize his backswing was too short and too fast and also his delivery was too abrupt plus he wasn't accelerating through the cue.

Les has said when he comes for another session he would like to do another analysis using the device to see if there's been any improvement.

Terry

[howardlax]

I don't think the actual gadget serves much purpose really. You can see easily when someone is too quick with their cue action.

I mean, you just said yourself that you start off too quick. All the gadget would do is confirm that. It's up to you to consciously slow everything down and get some more control.

I feel Alabadi has gone too far the other way. He looks so mechanical and "forced", you lose any natural feel on the shot.

2 years since all efforts you put in along with this post, have you sorted out your shoulder alignment ? Or you already a chilled century breaker only smiling at the past changes you struggled with..

[tedisbill]

2 years since all efforts you put in along with this post, have you sorted out your shoulder alignment ? Or you already a chilled century breaker only smiling at the past changes you struggled with..

I didn't bother getting my cue arm in a straight line. Many conversations with my mate who's a very good player, followed by lots of practice and hard work on far more important things. And yes! I have had lots of century breaks now. Stopped counting once I'd had over 30.

[howardlax]

I didn't bother getting my cue arm in a straight line. Many conversations with my mate who's a very good player, followed by lots of practice and hard work on far more important things. And yes! I have had lots of century breaks now. Stopped counting once I'd had over 30.

Good to hear. Although I am not as same level as you, but your experience would definitely help me with my technique improvement. Keep up, mate. Target 147 next, aha.

[matthias]

I didn't bother getting my cue arm in a straight line. Many conversations with my mate who's a very good player, followed by lots of practice and hard work on far more important things. And yes! I have had lots of century breaks now. Stopped counting once I'd had over 30.

could you please tell a bit more on this part, "far more important things"
what made you go onto the next level & making regular centuries now.
(apart from the practice and hard work ofcourse)

thanks
matt

[tedisbill]

could you please tell a bit more on this part, "far more important things"
what made you go onto the next level & making regular centuries now.
(apart from the practice and hard work ofcourse)

thanks
matt

- Consistent control and delivery of the cue
On this point, you must have a reliable and consistent way of getting the cue to deliver down a straight line. Stance, shoulders, bridge hand, grip, Backswing, cue pauses all play a part. You need a SMOOTH consistent delivery, and that comes in many shapes and sizes.

- Shot selection
This is massive. Very rarely discussed on this forum. Almost all players are concerned with their cue action. In my experience, many, many players could keep their existing action, improve their shot selection, and improve massively.

- Use of side
It's mostly discussed on this forum to avoid side, and although it obviously complicates a shot, it is vital you can use it, and also know how and when to use it effectively.

- Practice
If you can't do something, practice it. I often hear people say something like "I can't pot blue to split the reds, I always miss the blue". Well, practice that shot then. Experiment. See what works, what doesn't.

- Stop tinkering
Stick to the fundamentals that work, and do it over and over again. Every time you play, repeat an action that works and stick to it.... DON'T KEEP CHANGING THINGS!

- Years
It takes years to improve and get to a high standard. Enjoy the process. If it was easy, we'd all be on the TV.

Good luck!