cue arm&shoulder

[j6uk]

only so much you can do here, plus your got everyone having there say and you've gotta find the good stuff. if you listened to all the chatters here you'll get nowhere. if i wanted to be a good player this is the last place id look for help, you need someone at the table with you.

[tedisbill]

only so much you can do here, plus your got everyone having there say and you've gotta find the good stuff. if you listened to all the chatters here you'll get nowhere. if i wanted to be a good player this is the last place id look for help, you need someone at the table with you.

Couldn't agree more mate.

[tedisbill]

I think a main part of my problem is that I sight with my right eye. This means I have to get my head over closer to my body, which makes covering up the shoulder more difficult. I actually don't think many people have this "perfect alignment", it's just that their shoulder is covered up by the head, which makes it look pleasing to the eye.

[tedisbill]

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They're not perfectly aligned. Just very easy to cover the shoulder with the head, because they both use the perfect eye to help cover the shoulder.

[DandyA]

I think a main part of my problem is that I sight with my right eye. This means I have to get my head over closer to my body, which makes covering up the shoulder more difficult. I actually don't think many people have this "perfect alignment", it's just that their shoulder is covered up by the head, which makes it look pleasing to the eye.

it's an interesting discussion on this thread and very well done to you for your efforts tedisbill and to everyone who's advised you, especially hsn ... but I do wonder how important "perfect alignment" is ... I'd certainly rate a rock solid stance and keeping your head perfectly still above that ...

and then there's physique or age ... everyone's body is different, tall broad shouldered people are going to have more trouble with "perfect alignment" than shorter less broad people ... and age makes people less flexible ... I'm the same age as Steve Davis and I tried adopting your new stance and it jolly well hurt! but that's me and not you ...

[tomlimcj]

if your grip is not hitting the table during delivery, then you are not too low. the only thing to worry about is pushing that elbow high on purpose until it spoils everything...

[malc999uk]

Excellent thread this one, and since I have been experimenting with my alignment using the advice in this thread I have noticed a definite improvement in my potting accuracy. Before I read this thread my shoulder and elbow stuck out in a similar way to this picture of Joe Perry:-

Joe-Perry-2014_3066157.jpg

....and since following the advice of this thread my alignment has changed to something very similar to this picture of Barry Hawkins, i.e. my shoulder is just slightly sticking out, but my upper elbow is angled towards my body with the elbow directly above the cue:-

hawkins_2757450.jpg

I know this picture wasn't taken directly in front of the cue, but its the best photo I could find to illustrate my question, which is if the shoulder is slightly off line but the elbow is directly on line then is this good enough? My thinking is that when feathering and during the final delivery if the forearm is pivoting off the elbow then really all the one needs to do is to make sure that the elbow is on the line of aim? So the my question to the coaches and knowledgeable folk who contribute this forum - is my thinking correct or flawed?

[itsnoteasy]

For me it doesn't matter, I would rather my grip hand be online and my bridge hand be online , because that means my cue is online, so if I can deliver it straight happy days. If your elbow looks good but your grip hand is slightly out you may struggle to pot balls, of course it would be nice to have the ideal set up, but it's been shown the pros don't manage it all the time and they seem to struggle along quite nicely, this is just my opinion and I wouldn't take much notice of it lol.

[itsnoteasy]

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They're not perfectly aligned. Just very easy to cover the shoulder with the head, because they both use the perfect eye to help cover the shoulder.

Ted I think these two have a perfect set up, they are perfectly online, they just sight under one eye. Look at Trump if you draw a line straight up the centre of the cue ball perfectly vertical I bet it runs right through head shoulder and arm, even his grip hand that you can just see, it's just that he sights with his right eye.
P.s. Look how far over their bum and hips are.

[guernseygooner]

Just my opinion but I think you are chasing something that could be detrimental to your game. The various pics of pros with elbows inside/outside vertical, shoulder hidden/partially hidden illustrates this.

Far more important to find a set up for you that gets cue, bridge, head, grip on the same line no matter what it looks like. Then tons of practice!

[tedisbill]

Ted I think these two have a perfect set up, they are perfectly online, they just sight under one eye. Look at Trump if you draw a line straight up the centre of the cue ball perfectly vertical I bet it runs right through head shoulder and arm, even his grip hand that you can just see, it's just that he sights with his right eye.
P.s. Look how far over their bum and hips are.

With Trump, don't look at the centre of the cue ball, look at the line of his cue (I.e. The line of the shot) which is where I've drawn my yellow line.

With everybody that sights with one eye, this is what happens. Although trumps head shoulder and bridge arm all look perfectly in-line, he is in fact exactly like me, where because the actual cue is NOT perfectly central to his head (it's under one eye), it won't line up perfectly with the top of his elbow.

[j6uk]

Just my opinion but I think you are chasing something that could be detrimental to your game. The various pics of pros with elbows inside/outside vertical, shoulder hidden/partially hidden illustrates this.

Far more important to find a set up for you that gets cue, bridge, head, grip on the same line no matter what it looks like. Then tons of practice!

yep, and if your new coach is constantly fiddling with your setup and taking your money then look for someone else.

[itsnoteasy]

Just my opinion but I think you are chasing something that could be detrimental to your game. The various pics of pros with elbows inside/outside vertical, shoulder hidden/partially hidden illustrates this.

Far more important to find a set up for you that gets cue, bridge, head, grip on the same line no matter what it looks like. Then tons of practice!

Totally agree GG , that's why near the start of this thread I ask Ted what he was after with all this, and to be careful what he wished for.
Ted please don't over analyse your game, I do this all the time and it just mucks it up, every single time, nothing good has come out of me fretting over this should be a millimetre over here, or that should be an inch over there, as all I end up doing is thinking about that instead of playing. I have been told not to do it and I know I shouldn't but I can't ,I never used to , and all it's done is held me back, so before you head down this path stop and think, do you need a whole new set up, or do you just have to be more consistent with the one you have?

[guernseygooner]

I just think this learn by numbers can't be applied to snooker. If it was that simple then we would all look identical in the stance as this is 'correct'

[tedisbill]

I used to have the attitude a couple of years ago where I was scared to change anything. I'd think that because I could make the odd 50, that if I messed about with things, I wouldn't be able to do it anymore.

As time has gone on though, I've changed my stance, changed how slowly I pull the cue back, got a more deliberate pause at the back etc. God knows how long it's actually taken before I felt "comfortable" doing the new things. It certainly doesn't help the first time you try something, and it doesn't help that week, and probably not that month. But in the end, it will help.

I've only been playing 3.5 years properly. If I look at old video, my cue action is so quick. It just looks like I'll miss any second. So are you saying at the time I should have just said "well that's how I bring the cue back, so that's how it's gonna stay"?

At the end of the day, I'm not gonna forget how to pot balls just because I've tweaked something a bit.

There's a reason why all the top players play in a "similar" way. You can always pick somebody that does it slightly differently and gets results, but MOST of the top players have things is common.