Cueing arm right angle to the cue

[snooker mad]

Hi all,

I have a problem which I never knew about until my friend a coach told me about my cueing arm. He said that I was holding the cue too far back near the end of the cue, causing my arm not being at a right angle to the cue when the tip is pointing at the cue ball, it is more like a dogs hind leg. I've always played like this as far as i'm aware, and played well knocking in big breaks regular including centuries and I also won the league singles competition last year, and won the club handicap final the year before that with a century in the final frame winning 3-0 best of 5.

I hold the cue near the end so I can feel the flat part of the cue facing upwards, so then I know that i'm holding the cue the same way around on every shot, I also know this as well by the markings on my cue when i'm feathering. I think my cue is a bit too tall for me as its above my shoulder when the cue is stood up next to me. So i've tried putting my hand at the end of the cue like I used to feeling the flat of the cue facing upwards then sliding my hand down the cue to make my arm and cue a right angle, its very close to the join on my cue (its a 3/4 piece cue). I've also thought of moving my bridge hand back away from the white more so that I don't have to grip the cue as far up towards the join, so it doesn't feel too much different to how I used to play.

I have thought about changing my cue to a shorter one, or cutting some out of my current cue making it shorter, and maybe making a 6 inch mini butt out of whats cut out, but this would make the cue lighter.

Plus this is in my head now when i'm playing, thinking about right angle cue arm and i'm not concentrating as much on cueing, potting and position, I suppose it'll take time and lots of practice

Can anyone help?


Thanks
Snookermad

[nrage]

I think the best thing to do is get hold of a shorter cue and see how it feels. It will feel 'different' to start with, and it will take some getting used to.

I find, that I get more control with my arm at 90 degrees than if I hold it farther back, this is especially true when cueing off the rail, where I shorten my normal grip to achieve as near 90 degrees as I can. Do you shorten your already long grip to play off the rail? Do you find yourself missing shots off the rail .. or are the uncomfortable?

The one thing you do get holding it farther back is more cue going through the ball, assuming you are cueing well. The Q you have to ask yourself is, how much advantage is that vs having less control? Does the extra cue going through the ball make any difference? Can you generate as much screw without it?

Because, even if you are good at holding it that far back, which you clearly are, imagine how much better you would be with just a fraction more control. It may be the difference between potting or missing the 15th red-black pair on a maximum.

So, give it a go, a decent go like a few weeks and see if it makes you more accurate. I think it should, plus it should be more comfortable, and the only negative to watch out for is whether you're still generating the amount of screw you are used to. If not, try lengthening the grip by just 1 - 2 finger widths, that should be all that's needed to get a bit extra cue through the ball.

[Terry Davidson]

snookermad:

Before you do anything to your cue first make sure you have the correct set-up, which it sounds like you don't.

The bridge arm should be nearly straight with maybe a 10degree bend in it, the 'V' of the bridge should be somewhere around 10" to 12" from the cueball and if you do these 2 things your grip hand should be able to hang vertically to the cue with perhaps 1-2" hanging out the back provided you have arms of normal length and you are average height of between 5ft8in and 6ft.

If your cue is the normal 57" then I think you are 'crowding' the cueball by bending your bridge arm somewhere around 30-40degrees which may mean your eyes are too close to the cueball.

Terry

[snooker mad]

nrage:

Thanks for your reply nrage.

I'm going to go to the snooker shop where I bought my cue from 5 years ago. I've rang them and they said I can have a go with some of their shorter cues on their table. They said they could chop some off my cue and make it a bit shorter but I don't really want to do that.

In the meantime i'll just try moving my hand up the cue near to where the 3/4 join is, so that my arm is at right angle to the cue. I have been trying this for the last 2 weeks, but I keep slipping back into my old habit of holding the cue at the end.

Yes I do shorten my grip when playing off the rail as I feel I have more control over the shot, and i'm comfortable playing this way and can pot the balls this way too.

When I'm around the black spot I move my bridge hand closer to the white because I don't need a long back swing as I'm only playing soft screw, stun and follow through shots, but on longer shots I move my bridge hand further away from the white so I can get more cue going through the white resulting in more power.

I'll give it a decent go like you say for about a month, and I may pay a visit to my friend who's a coach to have a look over my new grip.

Thanks for your help.

[snooker mad]

Terry Davidson:

My coach told me to bend my bridge arm but didn't really say by how much, I used to play with a straight bridge arm before I had coaching. I'll try not bending my bridge arm as much and see how I get on. my coach told me that bending my bridge arm enables you to get through the white more. He is coached by Frank Callan, and my friend is a qualified coach.

Should my bridge hand be 10" to 12" from the cueball on every shot?

I'm only 5ft5in tall. When my arm is vertical to the cue there's alot more than 1-2" hanging out the back, its about 1-2" away from the join on my 3/4 piece cue, which is about 57-58" long I think. My cue is a Peradon Earl.


Thanks for your help.

[jrc750]

....I'm only 5ft5in tall. When my arm is vertical to the cue there's alot more than 1-2" hanging out the back, its about 1-2" away from the join on my 3/4 piece cue, which is about 57-58" long I think...

Sounds as tho you should really have a much shorter cue, i know everyones arms are not the same etc but i'm 6'1" and use a 58" cue, you may need something as short as 55" ????

[nrage]

but on longer shots I move my bridge hand further away from the white so I can get more cue going through the white resulting in more power.

Interestingly, and this is something I've only just realised recently .. thanks to a comment by Bomvu when we played on the weekend.

It's not a longer bridge that gets more cue through the white, in fact the opposite is true (assuming you don't move your grip hand). A longer bridge moves your grip hand closer to 90, closer to your chest where it stops at the end of the shot, shortening the distance you can move it, and shortening the amount of cue that goes through the white.

To get more cue through the white you need a bigger distance between the grip hand at address position and where it hits the chest, so you need your hand backward of 90 degrees. But, I reckon you only need 1-2 finger widths of extra cue to see a difference, and it all depends on how well you're striking the white.

Having a longer bridge gives you a longer back swing tho, which gives you more space to get the cue up to speed, and gives you a higher top speed. All of which also helps with screw etc.

[snooker mad]

Terry Davidson:

I've just checked online and my cue is 58" long, and the 3/4 joint is 30cm (12") long. So when my arm is vertical to the cue there's about 6-8" hanging out the back, but this maybe less when I make my bridge hand 10" to 12" from the cueball like you suggested.

[Terry Davidson]

snookermad:

The whole idea for the snooker set-up is to keep everything the same as much as possible (for consistency). You should try and keep a standard distance between the 'V' of your bridge and the cueball (tip) and at your height this should be roughly 10in or so and maybe at a squeeze 9in at the least.

The bridge forearm should be either straight or else just slightly bent and just bent enough so you can get some weight on the bridge arm elbow and forearm with a hand-on-the-table shot. If keeping it straight is comfortable then you should go with that, but if it introduces a little discomfort in the left shoulder or lower neck then bend it just a touch for comfort.

With the straight forearm the important thing is the arm is not off the table and does have some weight on it, for stability purposes.

Now I realize there are situations where you want to limit the follow-through and this would be when the balls are closer than 4" apart and straight in and for those shots you are not normally applying a lot of power anyway so you can shorten the distance 'V' to cueball.

This also applies when playing off the cushion where you should actually have your forearm IN FRONT of the vertical which encourages you to drive through to your chest more consistently.

The more important technique is actually driving the hand through to the chest ALL THE TIME and not the amount of follow-through as on most power shots almost every player I've ever come across will drop the elbow a couple of inches to get the power required, but actually the power is derived from the length of the backswing where a longer backswing gives the cue more distance to accelerate over however the danger is not being able to control the cue during a long backswing and thus having a slightly crooked backswing.

With what you've been doing I suspect you do not drop the elbow much on power shots but when you do go to your coach ask him to take a look and see what you're presently doing and what he recommends to alter to give you more consistency. In your set-up I would say any more than 2" of butt hanging out the back of your hand is too much and you should consider trying a slightly shorter cue. But try the set-up I recommend with a 56" cue and that cue length would be more suited to your height.

Terry

[snooker mad]

Thanks alot for your help and advice Terry, great help. Thanks everyone else who replied also. I'll keep you updated on how I get on.

[Theguywithaplan]

Just out of curiosity, is the coach you mentioned Ian Williamson?

[snooker mad]

Theguywithaplan:

No, its Michael Wild from Oldham.

[BradyBoy82]

Theguywithapal - Hi, I'm currently being coached by Ian Williamson and he has recommended that I incorporate a more profound bend in my arm as it was previously straight........ just wondered why you asked the previous poster if he was his coach, hope u don't mind me asking. Cheers

[Luke Hooper]

snooker mad, im not a coach or anything but i have one obvious thing to say..

if your knocking in regular centuries, clearly your doing something right - not everyone is the same and not everyone has to adopt the same technique and htere really is no right or wrong technique, its just whatever works, and if your knocking in centuries then it clearly means that your technique is fine for you and therefore i wouldnt be looking at changing much, if anything at all....

just my little two cents

[Giggity1984]

snooker mad, im not a coach or anything but i have one obvious thing to say..

if your knocking in regular centuries, clearly your doing something right - not everyone is the same and not everyone has to adopt the same technique and htere really is no right or wrong technique, its just whatever works, and if your knocking in centuries then it clearly means that your technique is fine for you and therefore i wouldnt be looking at changing much, if anything at all....

just my little two cents

Ditto that. I've spent countless hours trying to do everything right and I struggle to pot 3 balls in a row! Keep knocking the centuries in how u are and forget about moving your little finger two millimetres to the left, just because that's text book!