elevating the elbow?

[stephenm2682]

i've been looking at my right elbow during the cue action and i've noticed it's not elevated high enough above my shoulder/back, how can i fix this, it's only really lower on top spin shots, so if i look behind myself i can't even see it so it's pointing straight out behind myself instead of up in the air.

i've even tried to elevate it more, but it seems then i am pulling it to far into my body and chin contact points which means to much tension.

[nrage]

i've been looking at my right elbow during the cue action and i've noticed it's not elevated high enough above my shoulder/back, how can i fix this, it's only really lower on top spin shots, so if i look behind myself i can't even see it so it's pointing straight out behind myself instead of up in the air.

i've even tried to elevate it more, but it seems then i am pulling it to far into my body and chin contact points which means to much tension.

First, check the elbow position by videoing yourself. Set up a camera on the green side black pocket and play long blues from the yellow pocket. Play top, center, stun, and screw and compare the elbow position. Ideally you should see some elbow above your head, but your right shoulder should be hidden behind your head. Ideally it will look the same on all shots, or very close, after all the tip is only moving 1 inch in either direction.

The trick to getting the correct position is in the shoulders. The left shoulder should be as low as possible, letting the right shoulder come up and behind the head in a locked/stable position. This twists the upper body and should let you get the chest contact point up above the nipple by 1-2 inches and your cue will almost be in your armpit.

[Terry Davidson]

stephenm:

The give-away is you say your elbow is lower on top spin shots. This means you are using your elbow height to control the height of the cue, which is not correct.

Try and do as nrage says but use the height of your bridge to move the tip up or down on the cueball rather than raising/lowering the elbow. Learn to raise the bridge for top spin shots and also to keep the shoulder and elbow up as high as comfortably possible

Terry

[stephenm2682]

i do lift the bridge when playing top-spin shots, but my elbow is still lower on them shots, i've found if i stand using the old steve davis stance then my elbow is slightly higher.

i also find that when i play with top my body position is lower to the table and sometimes feels slightly awkward, but when i play with centre/bottom i feel comfortable.

i just find with the face-on stance i mainly put weight on the right leg and can't get weight evenly distributed as i feel like i'm leaning too much to the left. could being 6' 2 make this style more awkward?

[davidwu]

when I lift my elbow, not so high that cause discomfort, I seem to miss many pots.
If I dont put effort in to lift my elbow, i.e. let the elbow be where it is as I get down on the shot, my accuracy improve but I always get the feeling that the elbow is too low. Because I have a big head, so it is quite hard to see my elbow behind my head without lift my elbow up to before causing discomfort. However this could be too high and cause all the misses.

[Giggity1984]

Ricky Walden is 6"4. I believe he is the tallest player in the top 16. He manages to get his torso down to the table further by squatting rather then twisting and being uncomfotable on the shot. Although not exactly text book, and probably not advocated by anyone, it does show that the taller players may have to compromise slightly with regard to stance?! Perhaps this might be causing your saggy elbow?!?!

Perhaps Terry & nrage etc could further clarify this?

Just a thought!

[Terry Davidson]

stephenm:

I believe Steve Davis is 6ft2in, is he not?

It sounds to me as if your problem might be in your set-up however if you feel right with the elbow lower when playing then by all means do that. The only way to get this right is to get the left armpit down as low as you can to the table or in other words getting the upper body down as much as you can.

Remember to bend from the waist and keep the back as flat as possible. A lot of players make the error of hunching the back and this leads to all kinds of problems

Terry

[stephenm2682]

thanks for the help.

I went for a practice today and i think the problem was i was standing to close to the table and not leaning in far enough to get my back straighter. anyhow i saw some improvement but the odd time i was still lowering my elbow slightly on top-spin shots, it seems i don't always stand the same for both top and bottom shots, i can feel myself get lower on topspin shots which feels uncomfy but on centre to screw shots i feel better.

another issue is my grip, i tried potting long blues and tried it closing my eyes, potted 1 out of 3. and 2 out of 5 eyes opened. i sometimes feel that my grip pulls the cue offline.

[Terry Davidson]

stephenm:

To get the right distance from the table (or more correctly the shot) ensure you have between 9" to 12" from the 'V' of your bridge to the back of the cueball in the address position, also ensure the bridge arm is reasonably straight and then wherever you grip hand is on the butt of the cue (should be anywhere from the very end of the butt to maybe 3"-4" from the back of the grip hand to the end of the butt).

When set up like this, make sure the grip arm forearm is hanging vertical and then have the laces of the right shoe directly underneath the grip hand. This set-up should place you at the correct distance from the shot.

Now, regarding the grip. There are many different grips used by the top pros but all of them have one thing in common and that is the grip is loose enough so the cue can slide easily through the grip if someone were to pull on the back of the butt (not yours, but the cue butt). Ideally the grip taught by most coaches is the primary 'hold' on the cue is with the upper portion of the thumb and forefinger so there is no gap between the butt of the cue and the web between forefinger and thumb. The back 3 fingers of the grip are wrapped around the cue but are applying no pressure in the address position. When doing your final backswing ensure you try and keep the cue on the same plane always, which is nearly parallel to the bed of the table except for the height of the cushion. (The butt should be slightly above the cushion maybe 1/2" to 1-1/2".

With this type of grip the forefinger and thumb will feel like they are pivoting on the cue as the wrist angle to the butt changes during the backswing due to the changing angle of the butt to the grip and the butt of the cue should actually push the back 3 fingers of the grip hand out of the way a bit but not enough to lose contact with the butt of the cue.

Then when you start the delivery the back 3 fingers return to the normal grip but do not tighten on the butt until the back of your grip hand thumb stikes your chest. This method ensures you accelerate through the cueball rather than tightening the grip to early and decelerating through the cueball (called 'clutching the cue'). The best example of this is try and watch Ronnie in slow motion (if you can find a DVD recording of him) and you will see he doesn't grip the cue tightly until well after the cueball is struck.

Hope this helps out

Terry

[stephenm2682]

interesting how you say the bridge arm nearly straight, because i thought most coaches advocate a bend in it? i've only recently put a bend in my arm as i thought that's the recommended way, but that's maybe why i'm sort of hunching towards the shot.

yet again i'll try and see if the oracle as fixed my probs.

[Terry Davidson]

The bend in the bridge arm is a trade off with how much cue you have out over the bridge and how far away you want your eyes to be from the cueball at address. For someone 6ft2in I would recommend about 10-11" out from the 'V' of the bridge for normal shots and have about a 10degree bend in the forearm, however when in the balls I recommend the cue out front drops to 9".

The only reason I recommend an almost straight forearm is it seems to add a little more stability to the shot and also helps to get the left armpit down. As long as there is sufficient bend that a player can place some of his weight (around 10%) on the bridge elbow, forearm and bridge he should be OK. Try pushing your left elbow into the cloth with a hand on the table shot and see what I mean about the added stability

Terry

[snookerdream]

First, check the elbow position by videoing yourself. Set up a camera on the green side black pocket and play long blues from the yellow pocket. Play top, center, stun, and screw and compare the elbow position. Ideally you should see some elbow above your head, but your right shoulder should be hidden behind your head. Ideally it will look the same on all shots, or very close, after all the tip is only moving 1 inch in either direction.

The trick to getting the correct position is in the shoulders. The left shoulder should be as low as possible, letting the right shoulder come up and behind the head in a locked/stable position. This twists the upper body and should let you get the chest contact point up above the nipple by 1-2 inches and your cue will almost be in your armpit.

just read this, just been trying this in the club for the past week and cannot achieve this yet
any yeah normally the chest contact point for me is maybe just below the nipple or sometimes on the nipple.
i can tell something is off bcaz i most of the time miss long blues by 1 meter approx ;(

[snookerdream]

stephenm:

I believe Steve Davis is 6ft2in, is he not?

It sounds to me as if your problem might be in your set-up however if you feel right with the elbow lower when playing then by all means do that. The only way to get this right is to get the left armpit down as low as you can to the table or in other words getting the upper body down as much as you can.

Remember to bend from the waist and keep the back as flat as possible. A lot of players make the error of hunching the back and this leads to all kinds of problems

Terry

yeah Terry just read your post, yes i saw my videos and i have hunching back when in address position, how do i fix this?
i also tried lowering the bridge arm and raising the grip arm but it causes the upper body to twist too little bit
and normally if i dont raise , the chest contact point with the cue is right on the nipple or most of the time just below the nipple
thank you

one more thing to mention, that my bridge arm is not fully straight , its always bent. not sure if this is why i miss or it has any relation to the elbow or back straightness etc.

[vmax]

Snookerdream
nrage is no longer on the forum, his highest break at the time was 26, enough said I think.
Terry is no longer on the forum, I think he's quite ill as he was an elderly chap then so don't hold your breath for an answer to a thread from 2011.

You're quite persistant aren't you, trolling old threads looking for answers to things that don't apply to you, how many so called faults do you think you have btw ?
The original poster on this thread didn't post that any advice he was given actually worked for him, simply left it alone as many do. I suggest you do the same and work things out for yourself.

[snookerdream]

Snookerdream
nrage is no longer on the forum, his highest break at the time was 26, enough said I think.
Terry is no longer on the forum, I think he's quite ill as he was an elderly chap then so don't hold your breath for an answer to a thread from 2011.

You're quite persistant aren't you, trolling old threads looking for answers to things that don't apply to you, how many so called faults do you think you have btw ?
The original poster on this thread didn't post that any advice he was given actually worked for him, simply left it alone as many do. I suggest you do the same and work things out for yourself.

you think i am not trying myself? i find it funny that some people instead of motivating the snooker players, just make them hopeless. u did few post replies and already telling me to leave this forum
, and this forum is useless if it cant help people like me