eyes on cue ball

[HUFRO]

Hi Terry
I was having this problem, when switching my eyes to the o.b. at the rest pause it seems that on my delivery I strike the cue ball off line. I tried what you suggested in other post, looking at the ferrule in the back swing, pause look at the centre of the cue ball and start my delivery. I found that in taht manner, I am more conscious of my acceleration, like Steve Maguire; but the drawback is that at the same time it takes "flow" to my rythm, It is all too conscious. My potting has improved though, may be is just a matter to get used and doing it with more fluidity.

Hufro

[cris0000food]

G'day mate. Personally I found more focus on the object ball beneficial. I think at the last moment the cue ball should be in the back of the mind because you already know what you intend to do with it. I guess that's why cue action is so important. But I ain't no coach.

[cazmac1]

The eyes are so importent, you can pick the shot wrong but the eyes can make the cue do the right thing and visa versa, you can do everything right but if the eyes haven't registered the line of the shot as being correct the cue will come of line on the delivery.
This is my main focus at the moment. I've put all other aspects of my game to the back of my mind and am focusing totally where I'm hitting the white, contact point on the object ball and line of deflextion after impact with object ball. The last point is massive and very little is spoken about this aspect when sighting which I find strange.

[nrage]

This is my main focus at the moment. I've put all other aspects of my game to the back of my mind and am focusing totally where I'm hitting the white, contact point on the object ball and line of deflextion after impact with object ball. The last point is massive and very little is spoken about this aspect when sighting which I find strange.

The wagon wheel exercise posted here is probably a good one to try. I haven't given it a go yet, but I plan to.

[cantpotforshíte]

I changed my game a couple of weeks ago so that I'm now looking at the cue ball upon striking. What Cazmac says rings very true with me... if you look at the object ball upon striking (as almost every coach recommends), then even if you are not lined up you can still pot the ball by subconsciously by making micro adjustments with your grip fingers and elbow. Then you will not get the feedback that your brain requires to get lined up properly next time. I've come to the conclusion that this 'steering the ball into the pocket' is what's holding back my game. (And stopping me from becoming world champion )
Obviously I now play the odd shot where I look silly, but I'm happy because I think I'm learning quickly now to get lined up properly.
A lot of us on here are familiar with Terry's 'closed eye routine' and a lot of us are a bit baffled as to why we can pot balls better with our eyes shut than open. Looking at the cue ball upon striking for me has a similar effect to playing with the eyes shut.
A few of the top pros certainly are looking at the cue ball upon striking, and for me, there is a real conflict to tell somebody not to make micro-adjustments whilst down on the shot, and yet also telling them to look at the object ball when shooting.
As I've mentioned in recent posts, this isn't often talked about and I'd be keen to hear the opinions of others on the 'battle between hand and eye'.

[nrage]

I know what you mean about steering the ball into the pocket, I've done it .. usually (not all the time) I am a little unsure of the potting angle, usually (not all the time) I am down on the shot and thinking .. "this doesn't look quite right to me". At that point I should get back up and re-align, but sometimes I don't. On these shots I often steer the ball. Other times I think everything is right until part way through the stroke, reflex takes over and I steer again. I think as you get more sure of the angles, and get down on line more often, you'll steer less .. just because there is no need to. I also wonder if the steering has any effect, we've all seen those players who try to influence the ball with body movement after the white has travelled 2 ft

[cantpotforshíte]

But that's my point nrage, I've been sure of all the angles for years, I was just lazy in getting lined up because I know I can pot anything even if I'm not lined up. Which removes the incentive to get lined up in the first place. And when I say steer the shots in, I don't mean jumping to one side, or sticking a leg out after the ball has been hit as some of the poorer playing-for-a-laugh players do. I'm talking about subconsciously moving my forefinger by 1 or 2mm. Or subconsciously applying a trace of side to make the pot. I know that I was doing it, and I've had considerable success in the past by doing it. But I know it's wrong, I know my progress is limited by playing like that, and the only way I know of to stop myself from doing it is by looking at the white.

[nrage]

But that's my point nrage, I've been sure of all the angles for years, I was just lazy in getting lined up because I know I can pot anything even if I'm not lined up. Which removes the incentive to get lined up in the first place. And when I say steer the shots in, I don't mean jumping to one side, or sticking a leg out after the ball has been hit as some of the poorer playing-for-a-laugh players do. I'm talking about subconsciously moving my forefinger by 1 or 2mm. Or subconsciously applying a trace of side to make the pot. I know that I was doing it, and I've had considerable success in the past by doing it. But I know it's wrong, I know my progress is limited by playing like that, and the only way I know of to stop myself from doing it is by looking at the white.

Whic is it, "subconscious" or do you "know that <you are> doing it" .. because it can't be both .. or did you mean that you realise immediately that you've done it, after or during the stroke. I often realise I've done it during the shot because I can feel it happen .. especially on those shots where my brain decides part way through that it's wrong.

By looking at the white you're stopping your brain from making that decision and acting on it, which is good, but I wonder if you're loosing something in the bargain.. I can't really put my finger on what, tho, because all the things I can think of basically boil down to allowing you to make adjustments in the middle of the stroke - which is the problem entirely.

The one thing I can think of which may not cross the "minor adjustments are bad" line is that if you are looking at the object ball, you're fixing your brain on an extra point along the line of aim, giving it 1 more reference point to help it push the cue through on the line of aim. Without it you still have grip, chest, bridge, tip, white.. which is good, but they may only be a small portion of the total line of aim for any given shot - i.e. when the object ball is at the other end of the table they form perhaps 1/10th of the total line of aim. Much like how a longer rifle barrel with iron sights is more accurate, so is using two points farther apart.. or so it seems to me.

The way I managed to stop myself from steering the ball is by resolving to..
1. Always get back up if I don't think I am lined up correctly.
2. Never play the shot until I am sure I am 'as lined up as I can manage'.
3. Always push the cue through straight, even if I am not 100% sure of the line.

But, it does take a firm resolve, which can flag/splinter if you're tired or under pressure.. but I reckon the more I do it, the more it will become 2nd nature. It's basically "playing with confidence" and/or "having confidence in your judgement" .. it really helps with pressure shots, no more second guessing and snatching it, just plow on through and let the cards fall where they many.

Saying "you've been sure of the angles for years" may well be correct, but what if the angles your brain has learned are all for shots played with a trace of left hand side.

I've had a nightmare few months being unable to pot anything, even on the pool table here at work. My problem was with my grip hand moving away and back to my chest during the stroke. When the timing was such that this happened before contact, and it came back to the exact same spot I was intending, my potting was fine. When the timing changed I would add varying amounts of left hand side, or ever right hand side if it over-corrected before contact.

This fault has left me feeling like I could not pot, and could not see the angles, because sometimes the right angle would go, and other times the same angle would miss by miles. Happily I seem to have figured out how to stop it happening (most of the time), and my potting is almost back to where it was months ago .. and now the rest of my game finally has a chance to improve.

[cantpotforshíte]

It can be both mate, subconscious, and I know I've done it .. don't be a pedant Basically if I know i'm wasn't lined up correctly, and the ball has gone in, then I know I've done something subconsciously to pot it.
I've thought about the focussing on the object ball being an extra tool to fix my line of aim before, and when it works, I do stay stock still on the shot, and everything works well.
The trouble is, it doesn't always work that well (tiredness, pressure etc.), and on pots where the object ball is more than 6ft from the white, my eyes sometimes feedback some disinformation which makes me pull the shot.
I too have tried for a couple of years to take the three steps that you mentioned to stop me from steering the ball. And they all make sense. And I just can't do them all of the time: the draw of the eyes is too strong.
I know it's not a technical issue with my cueing, because if I play with my eyes shut, I cue dead straight and hit the ball dead centre. (I've got somebody to watch me, in case you're wondering). Obviously though, I'm going to look like a proper numpty playing in the league with my eyes shut, so this is my slightly less drastic measure. Thanks for your replies again.
Looking again at your pedantry, I can see that you were right .. I should have said 'I know that I do it' rather than 'I know that I was doing it' ... fair enough

[nrage]

It can be both mate, subconscious, and I know I've done it .. don't be a pedant Basically if I know i'm wasn't lined up correctly, and the ball has gone in, then I know I've done something subconsciously to pot it.

It might (appear to) be pedantry, but I am actually genuinely interested in exactly what you're trying to say. I say 'trying' to say, not because you're not doing a good job of explaining it, but because I am not understanding it to the level I want. That said, if you're not interested in explaining it, that's fine too. Again, not trying to suggest that is the case, just giving you an out if I'm bothering you with all my (pedantic) questions

When do you realise/know you're not lined up correctly? .. if it's before the shot why not get back up and line up again .. if it's during the shot, that I understand and have done that myself. But, I often wonder if I knew subconsciously before the shot, but simply ignored that intuition. And sometimes I get up and back down and it doesn't work, I still can't 'see' the angle so I tend to just play the shot anyway - what choice do I have.

[cantpotforshíte]

I know, and thanks for your interest.
Usually I realise I'm not lined up correctly during the shot; after the get down, and before the strike. Then I'd just pot the ball anyway, using 'subconscious micro-adjustments' (for want of a better phrase). Occasionally, I'd only realise after I'd potted the ball; ie when I realise that I've cued across the ball or moved my head a bit, and still potted it.
I suppose, when you break it down, if I know I'm not lined up after the get-down and before the strike, then the micro-adjustments are really not that subconscious at all.
More so perhaps if they're adjustments that I've done when I've consciously thought I was lined up perfectly, but actually my subconscious (which is always right so it seems) was sure that I wasn't.
Obviously this can get a bit complicated, hence my radical solution of looking at the cue ball upon striking.
Before I started looking at the cueball upon striking, I'd usually just steer the object ball into the pocket whether I was lined up or not, which works to a degree, but is obviously wrong in so many ways.
One other thing that has come to me in the last few days: One of Terry's four or five essential things to do on any shot is to make sure that the grip hand hits the chest on every shot. This, with a loose grip, certainly could help to stop steering the ball into the pocket.

[nrage]

One other thing that has come to me in the last few days: One of Terry's four or five essential things to do on any shot is to make sure that the grip hand hits the chest on every shot. This, with a loose grip, certainly could help to stop steering the ball into the pocket.

I've just had some coaching with him in Glocester and grip pressure is one of the the things he helped me sort out. I thought my grip was loose, but it needs to be looser still. In fact, using the 360 pure cue, with a grip so loose as to be laughable (cue resting on fingers, enormous air gap beside webbing, hand barely closed) I still managed to screw a ball on and off the side cushion (brown off the spot to green pocket) .. I was flabbergasted. This is obviously too loose, but does prove a point somewhat, gripping the cue hard doesn't give you anything, except problems.

FYI.. The way to find the correct strength is to hold the cue horizontally across your body, with your bridge hand grab the cue and you should be able to easily slide the cue in and out of your grip. If it sticks at all it's too tight. Of course I was doing this with my nice new cue which has no varnish on the butt, that would change things slightly.

I was already driving the hand into the chest, so all I needed was the loose grip and now I am potting long balls and screwing a fair distance, it's a miracle To remind myself of the correct grip strength I now do the test above, before walking into every shot.

[deano147]

It will all come together soon Mr Lunn, stick with it!

See you in the club soon.

[DG GIBERT]

Nrage

what did you think of the table at Glos?

I thought the pockets were not as tight as they all try and make out, in some clubs I have played at I found them to be tighter.

[DG GIBERT]

nrage

What did you think of the table at Glos?

Considering they were pro standard star tables I did not think the pockets were as tight as the commentators keep making out