Back to basics - accuracy with side

[nrage]

Terry

I wish you would stop telling players not to use side. It used to be an integral part of the game when the cloths had a heavy nap on them and just because the pros no longer have to play on cloths like this, unfortunately the rest of us do, as local snooker and political clubs just cannot afford to have tables re-clothed every few months. To be able to play around the black and pink spots using side on a slow table with a heavy cloth is practically mandatory, and players of the past like Alex Higgins, John Spencer and Ray Reardon did so to a very high degree which is why they were the best of their era.
Of course we mere mortals cannot aspire to their heights, but we can at least try, and when you find yourself out of position and can play a shot with running side to get on the next ball, then you have an advantage over someone who cannot.

I think Terry's emphasis was on using side "over distance", playing in and around the pink/black you're in close, not over distance.

That said, I have seen many a player use side to make position (and consequently miss the pot) when a much easier plain ball shot was available. Using side too often may affect a players shot choice for the worse, so I reckon it's better to avoid it - unless you really have no other choice.

[Terry Davidson]

vmax:

First of all I did say over distance and I also said don't use side where a centre-ball strike with a height adjustment will give you the same position but make you more accurate on the pot.

I don't know which type of cloth your club uses but in my experience most clubs are using the 6811 gold which is pretty close to the #10 the pros use although the pros always have a new cloth to play on.

In addition you are using professional players as an example and they would have normally put in tons of practice to try and get as accurate as they could with side. There is no proof anywhere that I've found that using side will make a player pot more accurately especially over distance.

There's nothing wrong with using side in and around the pink and black (as long as it's not unintentional side) where the pots are fairly easy and the margin for error to the open pockets provides a little more leeway.

For a player who regularly has 40+ breaks in practice and matches I believe he should experiment with side during his solo practice sessions and get a feel for it, but he has to keep in mind the effects of side vary greatly, especially when there is some distance between the cueball and object ball.

That's why I recommend to less skilled players to not use side frequently and especially over distance until they learn how to deliver the cue straight and get consistent with centre-ball potting then they can move on to experiment with side. However too many not-so-skilled players start out by trying to pot with side over distance thinking they need it for position and in that case the pot itself is a guessing game whereas they would be much more consistent over distance without the side.

Terry

[vmax4steve]

Agreed Terry.
The tables in our club are re-clothed approximately every two years, and so the cloths used are made to last this long and have a heavy nap on them. Sometimes the tables are re-clothed sooner than this, sometimes a lot later, depending on the clubs finances at the time I suppose.
Many years ago I read Ray Reardons book and he had a chapter on playing with side that was very informative. That together with lots of practise and playing against a really good player in our club who used side a lot gave me the confidence to use side myself.
Tell me what advice you would give to a player when on the "wrong" side of the blue and needing to go in and out of baulk avoiding the baulk colours. Myself I always play the white either between the brown and green or brown and yellow with left or right hand side aiming for the blue to hit the far jaw of the middle pocket or just beyond it depending on how hard I am hitting the shot. For me, to play this shot with centre ball striking, wishing the white to come off the baulk cushion and back between the brown and yellow or brown and green is much more difficult than using side, as the margins for hitting a baulk colour are greater; whereas with side you only have to miss the baulk colours once rather than twice.

[vmax4steve]

I like your sig vmax

It's a painting by american surrealist Man Ray called La Fortune.

[HemiRR]

When I regularly played better players (and regularly got crushed) many times I watched as they went in and out baulk through the same gap when 'wrong sided on the blue' EG from the green side of the blue striking a tip or so below centre with left pulling the cue ball between brown green and then having it check back out the same gap; or striking a tip or so above centre with right pushing the cue ball between brown yellow and then having it check back out the same gap. They did this when ball near the rail prevented going to the side rail when coming out of baulk. I can make that shot when I include it in my regular practice but with less success than using the side rail when coming out of baulk. I think it requires a greater skill level as the margine for error is reduced. Now that I play in a 55+ league on 5x10 tables it seems an even tougher shot as the space between the baulk colours is tighter.

[Terry Davidson]

vmax:

With reds on the table when I'm on the wrong side of the blue it totally depends on both the angle on the blue and also into which top quadrant I want to get the cueball. For instance, cueball on green side of table and wrong side of blue. The red I want to play position on is somewhere in the yellow side/top quadrant so I will use screw/right-hand side to go between green and brown to the baulk cushion then the right side takes the cueball to the side cushion where it becomes running side and I (hopefully) come down into the top/yellow quadrant between blue and pink.

If the positional red I want is in the top/green side quadrant I will use top left to go between brown and yellow to the baulk cushion then the left takes the cueball to the side cushion and is running side, again hopefully bringing the cueball into that top/green side quadrant for the red.

However, if I can't make a comfortable bridge on the blue I may choose to just roll or screw the blue ball and take on the 7ft shot on the red. I realize playing the blue with a fair amount of power and side does mean I have to be spot on with my cueing and have to feel comfortable to take that shot on.

The other one which I don't use much when pretty straight on the blue but on the wrong side is the extreme top to drive the cueball between yellow and cushion or green and cushion (sort of like a cocked hat double) to get the cueball back to the top end of the table. I try and hit these centre-ball and at H10 to get that 'arc' on the cueball but although I can do this on my own table which has a reasonably fast #10 cloth I admit there are not too many club tables where I can do this and get the cueball back to between pink and blue.

Now when clearing the colours and over-hitting the brown and ending up on the wrong side of the blue I will use straight stun to come off the baulk cushion and down one side of the table or other although if I can I always try and get on the pink from the green side of the table as I'm right-handed and there's less chance I'll have to use the rest. In this instance there's no danger of hitting a baulk colour since they're off the table and accuracy as far as weight (power) of the shot is crucial as I don't want to end up on the wrong side of the pink and have to try that 4 or 5 cushion power shot with side to get back on the black going in and out of baulk and coming very near either the yellow or green pocket.

But to emphasize my previous statement, even at my level and experience I will only use side on pots I'm comfortable with and also when there's not a lot of distance between the two balls. The blue into the middle from 2ft away I would consider a sure pot even with side but when I use a lot of power (as I would have to on a normal club table) I for sure think twice about it.

The other common shot for using side is when you're on the correct side of the blue for the pink but you can't roll it in so you would use check siding off the top cushion with some top stun to avoid the pink on the way down. That shot is one a player must be able to achieve as to just roll the blue in and get on the correct side of the pink takes some very accurate positional play from brown to blue and too often I can come up short or past which usually means I'm level with the blue and can only roll it in or screw back, depending on what side of the table I'm on

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

For some reason I keep getting a message saying I'm only allowed to post every 30 seconds and it says my post will go up, so I wait the 30 and submit and I see there are 2 duplicate posts sitting there

Terry

[HemiRR]

vmax:

The other common shot for using side is when you're on the correct side of the blue for the pink but you can't roll it in so you would use check siding off the top cushion with some top stun to avoid the pink on the way down. That shot is one a player must be able to achieve as to just roll the blue in and get on the correct side of the pink takes some very accurate positional play from brown to blue and too often I can come up short or past which usually means I'm level with the blue and can only roll it in or screw back, depending on what side of the table I'm on

Terry

When playing this shot I seem to have more success (talking about position on the pink not missed pots.) playing this shot with top stun and some running side, spinning off the top and then the side cushion. This is because if I am off a bit when I use check, if I am too close to the side cushion when I hit the top cushion, I end up on or near the side cushion and if I pass too close to the pink I end up with a thinish rest shot to get on the black. When I make a positional error using running side I seem to have a better shot for pink to black than my positional errors using check.

[HemiRR]

vmax:

The other common shot for using side is when you're on the correct side of the blue for the pink but you can't roll it in so you would use check siding off the top cushion with some top stun to avoid the pink on the way down. That shot is one a player must be able to achieve as to just roll the blue in and get on the correct side of the pink takes some very accurate positional play from brown to blue and too often I can come up short or past which usually means I'm level with the blue and can only roll it in or screw back, depending on what side of the table I'm on

Terry

When playing this shot I seem to have more success (talking about position on the pink not missed pots.) playing this shot with top stun and some running side, spinning off the top and then the side cushion. This is because when I am off a bit when I use check, if I am too close to the side cushion when I hit the top cushion, I end up on or near the side cushion and if I pass too close to the pink I end up with a thinish rest shot to get on the black. When I make a positional error using running side I seem to have a better shot for pink to black than when I make positional errors using check.

[Terry Davidson]

hemi:

I think the check side is worth mastering, however I will admit it's much easier to do on a table with a fast cloth and cushions with a decent bounce. Sometimes on club tables you end up with a slow cloth and poor top cushion bounces and in that case I would recommend the 2-cushion shot with running side, either screw or topspin just to get a little more pace out of the cueball.

With this running side shot I would still play it so that as a right-hander I end up with the cueball on the green side of the table just to reduce the chance of having to use a rest for the pink as usually it's either your game ball or else you have to get on the black and that's much harder with a finer cut using the rest and either rolling the pink at pocket weight (scary) or else trying to use some check side to slow down the cueball faster (even more scarier)!

Terry

[HemiRR]

Thanks Terry Very good point. I am not sure that I have ever consciously thought about playing to the left side of the table (I am a rightie) to reduce likehood of needing a rest on the pink. Usually its how thin am I on the blue that I use to decide - thinner I go with top & side, a little fuller bottom & side. I maybe playing to the wrong side of the table sometimes because I have not added this consideration in making my shot selection. (obviously '% make' is also part of the shot selection process - eg in practice 7/10 vs 9/10 then 90% make should be favoured)

[vmax4steve]

Terry

Good to see you getting away from centre ball striking, now you're speaking my language.

[Terry Davidson]

vmax:

As I said I only use side when I have to for positional purposes and also on relatively easy pots. There is a shot where I don't have a lot of success though, and that is coming up short on yellow to green so I can just see the green past the brown, so I have to use left-hand (check side) to stay on the brown at slow pace and across the nap.

My success rate at this pot is not too great, maybe 50% and I also have to hit it hard enough to bring the cueball back across the brown so I have a little pace on the cueball. Sometimes I end up on the side cushion or near it and straight on the brown and have to roll it in for a long blue.

Solution is of course to play better position off the yellow and get the green a little straighter but sometimes using a rest with the yellow I screw it up, especially on unfamiliar tables where the baulk cushion might not be the greatest. For me, that's a real testy shot but the only other option is to play safe on the green, like a snooker behind the black but I think I'm fairly normal and want to run out and win the frame!

Terru

[HemiRR]

I also used to try checking off a thin green to stay for the brown with reduced acuracy on pot and many times ending up with poor shape on brown, when I did pot the green. When I gave it some thought I realized that I had a good success rate going brown to blue when I was in front of side pocket (as long as I was not hampered by bridging over the side) Now I play the longer shape on the brown and my success has gone way up from 40+ % (green thin with check, pot brown and get decent shape on blue) to 65+% (cinch green, pot longer brown from in front of side and get decent shape on blue)

[vmax4steve]

vmax:

As I said I only use side when I have to for positional purposes and also on relatively easy pots. There is a shot where I don't have a lot of success though, and that is coming up short on yellow to green so I can just see the green past the brown, so I have to use left-hand (check side) to stay on the brown at slow pace and across the nap.

My success rate at this pot is not too great, maybe 50% and I also have to hit it hard enough to bring the cueball back across the brown so I have a little pace on the cueball. Sometimes I end up on the side cushion or near it and straight on the brown and have to roll it in for a long blue.

Solution is of course to play better position off the yellow and get the green a little straighter but sometimes using a rest with the yellow I screw it up, especially on unfamiliar tables where the baulk cushion might not be the greatest. For me, that's a real testy shot but the only other option is to play safe on the green, like a snooker behind the black but I think I'm fairly normal and want to run out and win the frame!

Terru

Strange, because that is the shot I always play when on a half ball yellow or green, check side off the cushion, hardly ever miss it. Aim just before the near jaw when playing against the nap rather than aiming for the near jaw when with the nap because as you know when playing against the nap the white continues to drift away from the line of aim rather than drift away and then come back onto the line of aim when played with the nap.