whats the best way 2 remeber potting angles?

[Wezza]

hi its Wez here
i feel i have a good stance, good cue action, good bridge hand and pretty much the foundations of my game covered.
However i struggle to find the best way of remembering potting angles i have strategies but none of them seem to work to a consistent level.
So if anyone has any id appreciate it

[Terry Davidson]

It's not necessary to remember the potting angles conciously. With enough experience it will become automatic.

Also, you should be able to determine the potting angle of any shot if you select the line of aim while standing up behind the shot and maintaining that line of aim when getting down onto the table by dropping the head straight down.

Then all you have to do is deliver the cue straight. Sounds simple I know, but that's the most difficult part and why most pots are missed

Terry

[HemiRR]

If you think your inconsistent potting results are from 'not seeing the potting angle' try using a set of billard cue balls in your practice. Use the dot cue ball as the object ball lined up with the dot marking the 'potting angle'. You should place the dot ball on each colour spot and try potting the ball into each of the normal pockets from straight in moving incrementally around to thiner, then from straight in around thiner on the other side. Make sure you place the cue ball so that you have a comfortable bridge and a medium distance pot. eg dot ball on blue spot starting from straight in to opposite the middle diamond top of table and then from straight in to opposite the middle diamond bottom of the table. Move the cue ball about 4" up or down the table for each subsequent pot. Try each angle until you make the pot atleast 2 times in a row.

If you can consistently make the balls from each of the spots then you know your stroke is working and the issue was seeing the 'potting angle'. If not then you will know your stroke is not consistent.

By regularly praticing this your brain will start to automatically 'remember' how to calculate or see various potting angles.

[HemiRR]

If you think your inconsistent potting results are from 'not seeing the potting angle' try using a set of billard cue balls in your practice. Use the dot cue ball as the object ball lined up with the dot marking the 'potting angle'. You should place the dot ball on each colour spot and try potting the ball into each of the normal pockets from straight in moving incrementally around to thiner, then from straight in around to thiner on the other side. Make sure you place the cue ball so that you have a comfortable bridge and a medium distance pot. eg dot ball on blue spot starting from straight in to opposite the middle diamond top of table and then from straight in to opposite the middle diamond bottom of the table. Move the cue ball about 4" up or down the table for each subsequent pot. Try each angle until you make the pot atleast 2 times in a row.

If you can consistently make the balls from each of the spots then you know your stroke is working and the issue was seeing the 'potting angle'. If not then you will know your stroke is not consistent.

By regularly praticing this your brain will start to automatically 'remember' how to calculate or see various potting angles.

[nrage]

As Terry says, most people have a cueing problem, not an aiming problem. I thought I had an aiming problem and went off on a crusade to learn how to aim using a 'system' only to later find I had a cueing problem instead.

The easiest way to check if you have a cueing or aiming problem is to set up a shot where you can eliminate one of those and test the other. As you cannot eliminate cueing without some sort of robotic device you should instead eliminate the need to aim.

So, set up a red on the blue spot, place the cue ball on the baulk line so that you have a perfectly straight shot into a black pocket (either side, whichever is more comfortable to you). The line of aim will be straight through the center of the white, the center of the red and will likely point directly at the edge of the pocket leather. That is, the edge of the leather on the top (black end) cushion, not the edge of the leather on the side cushion.

Attempt to pot this 10 times, record/remember how many you pot, how many you miss and where/how you miss them. Play 5 shots softly (hard enough to avoid any drift on the cloth) and play 5 shots much firmer, as many cueing faults only appear when power is used. Compare the results from each set of 5, and look for any patterns i.e. always missing them pocket to the right, or left.

If you can, record this test with a video camera mounted over the black pocket. You can use a mobile phone if you have some sort of mount like a Joby Gorrillapod for example. Post a link to the video here, and we'll take a look.

My fault was my grip hand moving away from the body and back in on delivery, resulting in additional left hand side on the cue ball, sending it right of the line of aim, and missing the pot on the left. I think this fault is fairly common. In addition I have discovered I also twist the cue on delivery, rolling my hand in, and bending the wrist out.

The solution for both faults was to loosen my grip, until I could easily slide my cue in my grip with my other hand and intentionally bend the wrist in, creating a kink in the back of the wrist/hand, then learning to feel when my hand is in that position, and keep it there on the stroke. Finishing every stroke with my hand on my chest, in that position, to verify I had not twisted on the stroke.

Once you have figured out the cueing fault, and started to train yourself out of it, you can move on to practicing potting and improving your aim (getting more and more accurate). I have one routine which I like because it doesn't waste a lot of time in setup and collecting the ball etc.

You place reds from the blue spot to the pink spot, as many as you feel like. Place the white near the side cushion, in line with the pink spot, but far enough from the cushion to get your hand comfortably on the table. Pot each ball into the middle, starting from the ball on the blue spot and moving down until you pot one straight or almost straight in. Now, move the white to be in line with the black, or slightly below and continue. Repeat this on both sides of the table. The good thing about this drill is that the white should naturally travel down the table and back up to us, so you don't have to go collecting it all the time. Each ball you pot has a different angle and you practice judging that and potting it. When I miss a pot I tend to replace the ball and repeat it until I get it.

[Terry Davidson]

Once you have your delivery sorted out and think you're delivering straight and have confirmed this with a video (sometimes it's hard to see in normal action and you need slow motion or frame-by-frame analysis) then here is an exercise to once and for all confirm your aiming ability.

Take 3 red and place them tight on the top cushion so the centre red is directly behind the black spot. Now remove the centre red and move the 2 outside reds 1/8" out from where they were. Now with cueball on brown spot see if you can hit the cushion between the reds without disturbing them. This is a very difficult exercise and you must be delivering the cue straight.

As nrage says, 99.9% of people who think they have an aiming problem and try and find some magic formula for aiming have in reality a crooked cue delivery which is usually caused by a crooked backswing because the grip is too tight and the backswing is too fast. To correct this they take the wrong step and shorten the backswing and tighten the grip and it will always get WORSE.

Try what nrage has recommended. If I'm remembering correctly this is what I had him do during our coaching session at the Southwest Academy but perhaps I'm remembering another student

Terry

[nrage]

Once you have your delivery sorted out and think you're delivering straight and have confirmed this with a video (sometimes it's hard to see in normal action and you need slow motion or frame-by-frame analysis) then here is an exercise to once and for all confirm your aiming ability.

Take 3 red and place them tight on the top cushion so the centre red is directly behind the black spot. Now remove the centre red and move the 2 outside reds 1/8" out from where they were. Now with cueball on brown spot see if you can hit the cushion between the reds without disturbing them. This is a very difficult exercise and you must be delivering the cue straight.

As nrage says, 99.9% of people who think they have an aiming problem and try and find some magic formula for aiming have in reality a crooked cue delivery which is usually caused by a crooked backswing because the grip is too tight and the backswing is too fast. To correct this they take the wrong step and shorten the backswing and tighten the grip and it will always get WORSE.

Try what nrage has recommended. If I'm remembering correctly this is what I had him do during our coaching session at the Southwest Academy but perhaps I'm remembering another student

It was me IIRC I wasn't too bad at hitting the cushion between the reds. The funniest thing was my first long blue with the 360 purecue tho.. not the result we were expecting .. oh, BTW my 360 purecue should arrive today sometime .. wooo!

[Wezza]

Thanks very much 4 these comments as come 2 mention it it could easily be my cueing as i have noticed how some shots without realising my arm twitches and causes it go off line the line of aim and causing me to put unintentional side on.
So next time i go to play i will expriment these certain drills you have mentioned.
oh and by the way i may have asked this before i forget, but is there a certain way i should step into the shot to make sure im hitting the line of aim i was looking at while from behind the shot.

[Wezza]

Thanks very much 4 these comments as come 2 mention it it could easily be my cueing as i have noticed how some shots without realising my arm twitches and causes it go off line the line of aim and causing me to put unintentional side on.
So next time i go to play i will expriment these certain drills you have mentioned.
oh and by the way i may have asked this before i forget, but is there a certain way i should step into the shot to make sure im hitting the line of aim i was looking at while from behind the shot.

[Terry Davidson]

wezza:

Absolutely, there's a set way to approach the shot and it should be done the same way for every shot. Stand 1ft behind where you will be putting your feet when in your stance and assess the potting angle and also where you are going to hit the cueball to get the desired position.

Now place your right foot (if you're right-handed) directly underneath where your grip hand is going to end up when you're in the address position. The laces of the right shoe (arch) should be directly underneath the grip hand position in the address position. Now place your left foot wherever it feels comfortable but at least 1 shoulder width between the heel. The left foot can be parallel with the right foot (called a square stance) or ahead of the right foot, (called open or partially open stance.

Now while you are still standing up bend the left leg and swing the hips to the left until you re-acquire the correct line of aim (i.e. - your nose is pointed along the line of aim you selected). Now start from a cue position across your hips and form your FINAL grip on the cue and swing your cue over to behind the cueball, forming your bridge on the way. You MUST drop the head (nose) STRAIGHT DOWN in order to keep everything on the chosen line of aim and also keep your eyes on the object ball until your bridge hand is on the table behind the cuball and the bridge is formed.

Leave the cue at rest for a second and check to make sure you are lined up on the correct line of aim and also that your tip is lined up on the cueball at the point where you decided to hit it. Start your 2-3 feathers (no more) then pause again at the cueball (called the front pause) for a second or so and then start slowly your final backswing, rear pause and delivery. Leave the cue extended on delivery with the back of your grip hand thumb up against the chest on every shot.

Terry

[pcb]

do we point our nose at bob or the cue line of aim . thanks

[Terry Davidson]

I just knew someone would ask this question because there's always an argument since except for a straight in pot the line of aim of the cue is always offset from BOB.

My answer is the eyes ALWAYS focus on BOB, no matter what the angle of the pot. However there is one instance where there is a definite aiming point which can be seen, and that is the exact 1/2-ball pot where the cue is aimed exactly at the outside edge of the object ball on its waistline. (But who can look at a pot and say 'that's an EXACT 1/2-ball pot').

However, if you think about it, any pot that is less than 1/2-ball the cue is actually aimed OUTSIDE the object ball and for those who argue you must have your eyes on the line of aim of the cue then I hope one of them can tell me exactly how they would do that since the cue lines up on open air (or maybe an air molecule if their vision is that good).

But again to make this more clear for the doubters out there. Let's say your cueball is near the pink spot and you have a very fine cut into the middle pocket. Where would every player focus their eyes? Certainly they wouldn't look at some spot outside that object ball and also certainly they wouldn't line up their eyes with a spot on the baulk cushion which would be hard to define.

So what are we really doing with the eyes? In fact whether conciously or unconciously we are all attempting to get the cueball into a plant position when it contacts that object ball and what we focus on is the edge of the object ball which in this case happens to be that damned BOB again! (And this also happens to be what's called the 'Ghost Ball' system of aiming)

What really happens is a player learns potting angles by first attempting to get the cueball to cover an arc of the object ball so the leading edge of the cueball contacts the object ball at the plant position along the waistline of the ball. His eyes will not try and focus on a point about 1" outside of the object ball with my example of the very fine middle pocket cut but rather he will focus on the edge of the object ball and attempt to get the leading edge of the cueball to contact that point. (There's that damned BOB again!)

Then through experience, which takes very little time at all, every player learns the potting angle required for every pot at any angle and he looks at the object ball with his eyes and attempts to get the leading edge of the cueball to contact BOB.

To those who say, but Terry, since we use hand-eye coordination in snooker shouldn't our eyes be more correctly looking at the point of aim of the cue since the forearm and grip hand will follow the eyes? My response is, not necessarily so because the brain very quickly learns what the aim-off of the cue should be from BOB and unconcously adjust for that by figuring out where the leading edge of the cueball will contact BOB. (By the way, BOB never changes, no matter where the cueball is.)

And I will repeat YET AGAIN...99.9% of pots (barring kicks) are missed BECAUSE THE PLAYER DOESN'T DELIVER THE CUE STRAIGHT. I will also repeat this little nugget...although I don't recommend it when playing a frame if you get down on the line of aim correctly, do your feathering and then CLOSE YOUR EYES, as long as you deliver the cue straight you WILL pot that ball (so you do not have to be looking at either BOB or the spot where the tip is lined up to in order to pot a ball because you should have correctly determined the correct line of aim WHEN YOU WERE STANDING UP BEHIND THE SHOT).

Sorry for the long explanation but I for sure know someone would have argued that the eyes MUST be lined up on the point of aim of the cue and that just isn't correct because you cannot line up (or see) a molecule of air outside the edge of the object ball.,

And if you don't believe me ask Nic Barrow or Terry Griffiths or Del Hill the same question and I guarantee you will get the same answer as I've given here

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

I guess I could have answered a little shorter....something like DUH, do you think you can line your eyes up on thin air?

(But I was trying to be clear and also a little diplomatic) however if you put a little thought into it before asking the question I think you would have come up with the correct answer I could have given in one word...'BOB'

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

wezza:

And actually to answer your orignal question on this post again but a little more clear. You don't have to remember the potting angles because there are thousands of them and you can't possibly remember them all.

When standing behind the shot and selecting your point of aim you will unconciously be using the 'ghost ball' method of aiming for ANY pot, and that is to imagine another cueball sitting in the plant position on the object ball and then aiming the cue for the centre of that imaginary cueball.

There might be one or two purists on here that will say the correct potting angle is not ALWAYS that plant position (or BOB if you like) because of the friction of the cloth. My response is if you use the ghost ball method and imagine covering an arc of the object ball which is the plant position you will pot every shot (if you deliver the cue straight) and that is why no one tries to remember the thousand or so different potting angles for every possible shot on the table. You just can't do that.

Just remember the plant theory and work on delivering your cue straight and also remember only the very top professionals can deliver the cue straight consistently and even they screw up once in awhile and miss a pot here and there and you'll hear Dennis Taylor say something like 'he delivered his cue left-to-right on that missed pot'

Terry

[farlex11]

Hi Terry,

I hpe that you can help me with this issue as it keeps confusing me .
I beleive that the subconcious mind can easily determine the line of aim of the most difficult shots just by taking the quickest glance on the shot.
But how do you guarantee landing correctly on that line while dropping down ,especially if you can't aim correctly after you are locked on the shot ?
another weird thing is that when i am allligned correctly ,the shot appears extremely wrong from down.but i play it and it goes into the pocket center ? does this make sense.