Closing the grip too early

[HUFRO]

Hi Terry;

Recently, I taped myself potting long blues, and I found looking at the camera shots from behind, that I start closing the grip a second before I hit the cueball. Also I found that if I do the 2 feathers slowly, that throw me out of sync. So, I do 2 feathers,to feel the grip loose enough stop at front slow backswing looking at the cue tip to go straight and try to pause at the end of the backswing but I feel that most of the times I don't have a rear pause but anyway I accelerate through the delivery.

What should I do to avoid closing the grip too early? Also, what should I do to keep that piston movement through the delivery?. I notice that during the feathers I keep a "piston action" but at the final backswing, may be beacause is a little longer than the feathers, I loose that feeling of "piston action"

I appreciate your comments on those 2 questions

Thanks

Hufro

[CueAce]

The grip should not 'close' as there should be no air gap around the grip to be closed. If you mean that you think you tighten the grip too early, you need to learn not to tighten at all. Concentrate on maintaining the same loose grip throughout the delivery with no air gap. If you concentrate on doing this on every shot while you practice then sooner or later it will become natural.

[nrage]

If you upload the videos I'll definitely take a look for you.

[Terry Davidson]

HUFRO:

In our coaching session we determined you were closing the grip too early and before the cueball and this automatically means you are decelerating the cue before the strike. In addition your grip is limiting your backswing and it sounds as if you are not releasing the back 3 fingers near the end of the backswing (allowing the butt of the cue to 'push' them out of the way.

So I recommended, in practice only, you loosen that grip up so much that it will seem too loose, even if you ended up with an airgap between the butt and the web and this was to try and get you to the point where you didn't tighten the grip until well after you've struck the cueball.

It sounds like my idea has failed in your case and you are still tightening that grip too early and that will cause not only deceleration but also helps generate head/shoulder movement, especially when using a bit of power.

So now we're left in a position where tightening the grip early has become a natural part of your technique and my recommendation is you MUST work on keeping the grip loose until after the strike and in fact until the back of your thumb hits your chest which will automatically tighten the grip.

I really don't know what to tell you since really loosening the grip in the address position is the only way I know to give the student something they can use which will keep the grip a little more loose at time of strike.

Since you have your own table and do a lot of solo practice I would recommend you stick with the VERY LOOSE grip as I don't think you've given it enough time. As I mentioned to you, there is no 'silver bullet' with snooker and nothing I can teach you will make you a better player in the very short term but with some work and time that loose grip at the start will help you in the long run

Terry

[JasonHB]

My coach - one of the very best in the world btw - does not really focus on the grip at all. The opening and closing of the grip is a natural reaction to the lower arm (below the elbow) moving backwards and forward. The grip will open and close through the shot. As long as it is in a neutral position at address, then the rest should happen automatically.

It seems that Hufro is using his fingers and probably wrist to deliver the cue rather than the arm.

Just my opinion I hasted to add

[CueAce]

It sounds like you are trying to maintain a loose grip but can't follow it up into the actual shot as nature takes over. A couple of pointers would be that 1) Imagine the purpose of the your index and middle fingers is to keep the cue in contact but not pressuring against the web of your fingers. 2) In practice (Certainly not in play) play some shots with no grip atall.. have a curved hand that your cue rests on but keep the thumb and web of your hand well out of the way of the cue. (as if you didn't have an opposable thumb) if you play some shots like this it might program into your mind that the cue won't slip from your hand if your grip is loose

[nrage]

My coach - one of the very best in the world btw - does not really focus on the grip at all. The opening and closing of the grip is a natural reaction to the lower arm (below the elbow) moving backwards and forward. The grip will open and close through the shot. As long as it is in a neutral position at address, then the rest should happen automatically.

It seems that Hufro is using his fingers and probably wrist to deliver the cue rather than the arm.

Just my opinion I hasted to add

Interesting... yeah, I can see what you're getting at, and I think it makes sense. The tricky bit is keeping the hand 'neutral' throughout the shot as most people I have met seem to have an 'active' hand which is loosening and tightening all the time during the shot, most common is the loosen on the back swing and the tighten on the forward stroke. It's a hard habit to break, especially if you've been doing it for a long time.

[JasonHB]

I know what you mean. I had the habit of twisting my wrist on the follow through which threw the cue off line.

After my first trip to my coach, I have never done it again lol

[nrage]

I know what you mean. I had the habit of twisting my wrist on the follow through which threw the cue off line.

After my first trip to my coach, I have never done it again lol

That's a pretty quick result My problem is a bit of a twist, but also movement away from the body and back in. I can't seem to get rid of it.. yet.. If I really concentrate on the orientation of my hand, specifically keeping the bend in my wrist, I can reduce it to the point where it seems to have no/little effect on my accuracy. The problem is, next session the problem is back and I have to concentrate again, etc.. it's not become natural for me, yet.

[JasonHB]

That's a pretty quick result My problem is a bit of a twist, but also movement away from the body and back in. I can't seem to get rid of it.. yet.. If I really concentrate on the orientation of my hand, specifically keeping the bend in my wrist, I can reduce it to the point where it seems to have no/little effect on my accuracy. The problem is, next session the problem is back and I have to concentrate again, etc.. it's not become natural for me, yet.

I was instructed to use my chest to keep the cue locked against it. In theory, there should be a 3 point contact. Your bridge hand, your chest and your chin. The chest will stop the cue coming off line

[nrage]

I was instructed to use my chest to keep the cue locked against it. In theory, there should be a 3 point contact. Your bridge hand, your chest and your chin. The chest will stop the cue coming off line

It doesn't .. or I'm doing it wrong .. I'll setup my camera to film a close up of the chest contact point next time I'm practicing to see what I'm doing there, thanks!

[Terry Davidson]

The 4 points of contact, bridge, chin, chest and grip are emphasized by Del Hill whereas some other coaches say the cue shouldn't rub the chest at all as this tempts the player to bring his grip hand around his chest and thus throws the cue out of line.

I advocate the cue should be touching the chest but not tight against it and I also tell my students they must bring the chest to the cue rather than pulling up the elbow to bring the cue to the chest, which in my opinion is bad.

However I do teach the elbow should be as high as possible without causing discomfort so it's a fine balance where I try and get the student down low enough (the chest on the rail actually) then have them brace their right shoulder by raising the elbow up as high as they can without exerting pressure on the cue against the chest.

What I really want to do is get some video of Judd Trump and see what he does as I figure whatever he's doing it must be right since he's a frikkin' potting machine. I want to put an analysis program on him and see his grip, how tight he is to the chest, his backswing speed and how he delivers the cue. I think there's a lesson for us all in there somewhere

Terry

[HUFRO]

thanks terry and all you guys;

I think that I should concentrate in not tighten the grip during the delivery, on the backswing it is very loose.

Iwill post some clips later on.

thanks

[Jamie-147]

The main area of focus to ensure you manitain the piston movement is in an unlikely place. Alot of being able to acheive the fluent movement your looking for is in the stance.
Ensure your body position is directly pretty much behind the cue ball with your legs spread evenly to adjust your balance. Once the stance is mastered then you should see a more fluent motion and will feel more relaxed, this relaxation will dictate your actual grip on the cue. A different techinque i have seen people use is the karate stun, where you strike the cue ball much like a karate expert delivers a punch, with a slight wipe back on the strike, this again will dictate how the cue should be held.

Hope this helps, or at least gives you a few ideas.

[HUFRO]

thanks jamie47;

tonight i'll try to put all those advices into play when I practice and will tapethem for you guys give me some advice.

thanks