Closing the grip too early

[Terry Davidson]

Hufro:

I want you to try something which might seem totally off your problem but I believe it might help you get your rhythm and timing comfortable and allow you to keep the grip from grabbing the cue too early.

Please experiment with making your front pause a lot longer than it is now. By front pause I mean after you're done feathering and just before the final backswing. Try and get it out past 1 second and ideally 2 seconds and during that front pause confirm the grip is loose and do what the actual purpose of that front pause is, and that is to do one final confirmation you are comfortable with the line of aim of the cue and also where you're hitting the cueball (so look along the cue from the 'V' to the cueball and finally raise your eyes to the object ball and leave them there when you start the backswing).

Let me know if this helps at all or completely screws you up

Terry

[CoachGavin]

Terry: To me Judd Trumps action seems very similar to another good potter, Neil Robertson. They both keep their elbow very high and do not drop it much as they deliver the cue. This is against players like Ronnie who drop the elbow quite considerably.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2OPnN7cA-U

On the grip tightening just make sure you are following the plane of the cue as you go back and forth with your cueing. If on the delivery your aim is too high or low your brain will tighten on the butt to adjust it which may cause you to tighten up. As you say it will be good to see the video but just an extra opinion for you.Good Luck!

[CoachGavin]

Terry: To me Judd Trumps action seems very similar to another good potter, Neil Robertson. They both keep their elbow very high and do not drop it much as they deliver the cue. This is against players like Ronnie who drop the elbow quite considerably.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2OPnN7cA-U

On the grip tightening just make sure you are following the plane of the cue as you go back and forth with your cueing. If on the delivery your aim is too high or low your brain will tighten on the butt to adjust it which may cause you to tighten up. As you say it will be good to see the video but just an extra opinion for you.Good Luck!

[HUFRO]

Here is the video with my cueing action.

During the first 5 or 6 shots I tried to be conscious of the elbow acting as a hinge, then I think I lost concentration and started missing pots and putting "shoulder movement". I don't know why my arm is moving to the right duringthe delivery, also I don't know if it is before, at or after the contact with the cue ball.

I appreciate your comments.

Hufro

http://www.youtube.com/user/HUGOFRONES#p/u

[agromann]

Hey,
I know there are a lot of suggestions in this thread already, so feel free to ignore mine, but I have a few items to consider.
Firstly, I agree that you (Hufro and whoever is affected) should try a loose grip. Amongst the approaches you could try playing VERY slow shots.
A common cause for the tight grip at the end or snatching at the cue can be psychological. E.g.: As opposed to consciously trying to hit the ball with an easy grip that mirrors your grip while feathering, the mind goes blank or you tense up on delivery.
Often players tense up as they want to deliver that final stroke. This is partially because it is the “important end product” and partially because the last backswing is generally longer with most players.
Leaving aside stance, lifting of the head, the contact points and the locked hinge or unlocked elbow (it is an accentuated joint), the grip often tightens as you do a decisive delivery, ending in jabs, a lift in the cue at the end of the action, torsion in the cue and it dropping off line.

To give my 2 cents in answering the 2 questions by Hufro (some repetition here):
• Try a loose grip and maybe start with just leaving all fingers other than the Thumb and Index finger off the queue, just to avoid temptation to start with.
• If you have the last 3 fingers on the butt, keep them loose and flexible to open and close (maybe try to use some talc to see if you rely heavily on them)
• Maybe start practicing some slow rollers to avoid using power. Line shots across the spots are good for that too.
• Stop at the end of the final backswing with an accentuated pause while clearly focussing on your target on the object ball. As opposed to pulling back and pushing right back into the final delivery stroke forward, stop, look and then initiate. That way you do not have to overcome the cue’s backward momentum and you can calm the mind to put it all together. As you deliver, remember a piston has to start somewhere as well. Generally from an initially inert position. So begin with a consciously deliberate / slow start to the final delivery stroke, imagining the piston gaining speed as you punch through the white.
(This contradicts something Terry says and I am not saying I am the authority on this approach. I noticed it helps me and if you wantch the pros, they largely have accentuated pauses at the end of the final backswing.)

Hope this helps. Use or discard as tripe…


[agromann]

Hey,
I know there are a lot of suggestions in this thread already, so feel free to ignore mine, but I have a few items to consider.
Firstly, I agree that you (Hufro and whoever is affected) should try a loose grip. Amongst the approaches you could try playing VERY slow shots.
A common cause for the tight grip at the end or snatching at the cue can be psychological. E.g.: As opposed to consciously trying to hit the ball with an easy grip that mirrors your grip while feathering, the mind goes blank or you tense up on delivery.
Often players tense up as they want to deliver that final stroke. This is partially because it is the “important end product” and partially because the last backswing is generally longer with most players.
Leaving aside stance, lifting of the head, the contact points and the locked hinge or unlocked elbow (it is an accentuated joint), the grip often tightens as you do a decisive delivery, ending in jabs, a lift in the cue at the end of the action, torsion in the cue and it dropping off line.

To give my 2 cents in answering the 2 questions by Hufro (some repetition here):
• Try a loose grip and maybe start with just leaving all fingers other than the Thumb and Index finger off the queue, just to avoid temptation to start with.
• If you have the last 3 fingers on the butt, keep them loose and flexible to open and close (maybe try to use some talc to see if you rely heavily on them)
• Maybe start practicing some slow rollers to avoid using power. Line shots across the spots are good for that too.
• Stop at the end of the final backswing with an accentuated pause while clearly focussing on your target on the object ball. As opposed to pulling back and pushing right back into the final delivery stroke forward, stop, look and then initiate. That way you do not have to overcome the cue’s backward momentum and you can calm the mind to put it all together. As you deliver, remember a piston has to start somewhere as well. Generally from an initially inert position. So begin with a consciously deliberate / slow start to the final delivery stroke, imagining the piston gaining speed as you punch through the white.
(This contradicts something Terry says and I am not saying I am the authority on this approach. I noticed it helps me and if you wantch the pros, they largely have accentuated pauses at the end of the final backswing.)

Hope this helps. Use or discard as tripe…

[nrage]

I've watched the video and I can see the grip tense (early?) on the strike. I think agromann has made a couple of great suggestions. I think the tense/snatch you have is learned behaviour and to stop it you're going to have to re-train from scratch. It will take some time, and willpower but it will be worth it.

To start, I would do as agromann has suggested and hold the cue with just the thumb and forefinger finger tips on the sides of the cue and a big O shaped hole between the cue and the palm of the hand. This will feel very weird, but that is the point, you need to do something so different that the previously learned behaviour does not immediately kick in.

Play some blues to the middle pockets like this, just slow rollers to start and gradually increase in speed a little (no need to play power shots here). Try a few with screw, just delicate little screw shows, you'll be surprised to find out that even with this grip, which you'd think had no power whatsoever, you can still screw the ball.

For an example of the grip and a screw shot played with it see:
http://www.youtube.com/user/neilmaxm...11/pD659eZ054I
(skip to 04:40)

While doing this concentrate on keeping the wrist and hand 'neutral', that is not tense/tight, but also not able to bend all over the place. The only moving part should be the elbow and lower arm swinging like a pendulum, nothing else. No elbow drop at all at this stage.

Once you can manage that, now take the cue in a more normal grip. But this time (as someone suggested earlier) form the grip but have it so loose there are gaps all around the cue and the cue is literally just lying on the fingers. Similar to before play slow roller blues to the middle, speed up gradually and again concentrate on the wrist and hand being 'neutral' and the pendulum action.

Finally, and this should be after at least 30 mins of the aforementioned tasks (you have to give yourself time to adjust to the new mechanism) take a grip with no gaps, keep it loose as Terry will have shown you, and again play slow rollers and gradually increase the speed, as before concentrate on the wrist and hand, keep them neutral.

I had similar trouble to you and it took me ages to have a breakthrough, the breakthrough came when I was practicing long blues (white 1.5ft behind the blue - not on baulk) but hitting them only hard enough for the blue to reach the pocket without drifting off. It should fall in without 'hitting' the leather.

Once you master the 'neutral' hand technique you will know, it just feels right. Once that clicks into place keep drilling it in for at least 30 mins, and then come back later in the day or the next and try to fall straight back into it with soft/easy blues, drill it and drill it until it becomes the only way you know how to play.

Oh, and if you want me to check you're doing the above things 'correctly' you could film them and post them. Up to you.

[HUFRO]

Thanks Agromann and nrage;

Your advices are very sound and I'll put in practice right away. Analizing my video I also found that I rushed into my shots, so I'll need to slow down quite a lot. I hope those drills hitting the ball just rolling the cueball will help me to slow down.

Thanks again guys for your patient to analize my cue action.

Hufro

[Terry Davidson]

Just a corrective comment but not for Hufro. I am an advocate of every player having a discernible rear pause (and I wish I had one but I don't). With the exception of Mark Allen, Peter Ebdon and one other player I can't remember...every player in the top 32 of the pro ranks has a discernible rear pause which I believe helps a player 'drive' (or accelerate) through the cueball and also disconnects the backswing from the delivery.

A lot of players, including myself, are guilty of what's called 'hitting the cueball on the backswing' which means your brain is already concentrating on hitting the cueball even while you are doing that nice slow backswing.

No matter what I've tried, I can't get a natural rear pause. I've tried counting, watching the ferrule coming back and then switching to the object ball and a host of other ideas presented by some very good coaches. Nothing has worked for me, but I try and teach a rear pause to my students and I recognize it is one of the good habits which lead to a better player. (damn it all)

Terry

[nrage]

No matter what I've tried, I can't get a natural rear pause. I've tried counting, watching the ferrule coming back and then switching to the object ball and a host of other ideas presented by some very good coaches. Nothing has worked for me, but I try and teach a rear pause to my students and I recognize it is one of the good habits which lead to a better player. (damn it all)

I can't seem to manage it either, but I have to be honest and say I probably haven't tried hard enough. The biggest barrier for me is that it just feels wrong, I feel almost lost if I pause at all at the back. It's almost as if, as soon as my cue stops at the back, I lose the feeling for the straight line I drew the cue back on, and consequently cannot push it back along that line. Of course, I know from filming that without a pause I'm not necessarily following it back anyway, so it's just a feeling.

Perhaps this is a mad idea.. what about training the pause in by getting down with the cue pulled back to the V, so you start with it back, no feathers, just get down on the line and push through. I might see what that does to my brain next time I'm practicing.

Alternate idea, add a rear pause to the feathers. I think the feathers not having a pause maybe makes the shot feel odd with a pause (until you get used to that).

[Terry Davidson]

nrage:

Well, I tried your 2 suggestions and found the one with no feathers to be the best although I altered it a bit by still dropping the cue behind the cueball, no feathers, final backswing, pause and deliver.

I tried pausing when feathering but that REALLY through my timing out of sync and I couldn't pot even a simple shot

Terry

[nrage]

nrage:

Well, I tried your 2 suggestions and found the one with no feathers to be the best although I altered it a bit by still dropping the cue behind the cueball, no feathers, final backswing, pause and deliver.

I tried pausing when feathering but that REALLY through my timing out of sync and I couldn't pot even a simple shot

Terry

Yeah, I gave it a try too and had similar results. I think I will try practicing with no feathers and the rear pause for a few weeks and see if I can cement it in when/if I decide to add the feathers back in.

[agromann]

Hey,
One thing I tried for the rear pause myself was a simple exercise but it seemed to help me and a couple of people I showed it to.
Simple thing really…
- Line up the balls along the baulk line, including the white
- Put them straight to the far pocket without using the white. Simple shot into the pocket.
Important: Pick a tiny spot in the weave of the pocket netting as a target. The pocket is not your target, the weave is. Imagine that spot in the weave is your object ball.
- While feathering, focus on your eye motion. The basic thing of look at the white as the tip is close, look at the target, as you do your back-swing/feather.
So…Before starting first feather, focus on the white / Start backwards motion on first feather, focus on the spot in the weave of the pocket net…rinse and repeat based on your technique.
- On the final backswing, halt at the end and take your time to let your eyes travel the whole 10-11 feet you have in front of you and take a really good look at that target spot in the weave.
- Hold there until it is clearly your only focal point
- Deliver the shot and look at the spot until the ball hits it.
Firstly, this trains you to stay down on the shot.
Secondly, if you play it softly you can focus on your grip and clenching the butt as well as notice what the nap of the table cloth does to your line.
Thirdly, it also teaches you to keep your eye on the target (e.g. object ball) and not to shift to where the object ball goes. What I mean is, if you take an angle shot, you should keep your eyes on where the white hits the object ball and not shift them to where the object ball is heading for the pocket. This can affect your posture, your stroke and make you lift your chin, turn your head and get up too quick.

Lastly, and most importantly; you let your eyes travel, focus on the spot and force a pause on you because they are travelling the longest possible distance. Take a good long look. If you are cueing straight and did your line right, you can stand there for ages.
Play with it. Exaggerate it. Shorten and lengthen it for fun. Play bottom and top and hard and slow. In due course you will notice you can hold that pause.

[agromann]

My answer must have gotten lost here...
Try this...pot balls directly from the baulk line (no white, just a direct shot into the pocket). Pick a spot in the net of the pocket as your "object ball" target. Line it up and feather (cue on white/eye on white -- Cue back/eye on target spot). On teh final backswing, hold, take your time and slowly let your eyes settle on the far spot and really make sure it's the only thing you see. By this time you should have wasted a second or two. Strike and make sure you hit the spot in the web. It is not about hiting a single ball directly into the pocket, it's about hitting that spot in the pocket after a long pause.
Play with it...lengthen the pause, shorten the pause, play top or bottom, slow or fast, see the nap take the ball etc.
Some good things come off this...1. You train to look at the object target spot / 2. Given that you have to focus 10-11ft away, you have time to really pause / 3. If your cue action isn't straight, you'll know.
Note: This is a good exercise to avoid getting up and tightening up as well. Just stay down until the ball is in, play with the pause on the backswing and feel what your grip is like as you slowly start on the final stroke into that piston drive through the ball. It is a good practice to look at the spot where you hit the object ball and keep your eyes there, as opposed to looking where the red/colour went. The latter induces and promotes lifting of chin, turning of head and getting up too early.
It's not about hitting the pocket on this exercise, it's about taking that pause, making it comfortable and hittin the target spot INSIDE the pocket.

[farlex11]

Hi Terry,

I beleive that trump's amazing potting capability comes from his mental side ,as he seems to deeply beleive in his capabilities and considers all shots easy.
He probably doesn't even use a single delivery method or a certain fethering sequence.
Sometimes while practice i enter this brain state and start potting all the impossible shots but i can't do it consistently as i start doubting my aiming.