Closing the grip too early

[Terry Davidson]

Gavin:

When I use the forefinger/thumb to stop the cue I find the butt doesn't lift at all or if it does lift then it goes up in a straight line.

When players are stopping the cue using the back 2 or 3 fingers I've found when using the video that a lot of them (most of my students are not highly skilled) are closing the back 3 fingers prematurely and ramming the cue into the back of the palm. This always lifts the butt and moves it to the right since closing those fingers also has the effect of dragging the main grip knuckles downwards which in turn also turns the wrist too.

This string is meant to give this type of player the 'feel' of not closing those back 3 fingers prematurely and then having them move back to the more orthodox 4 finger 'bed' grip with the cue just sitting on the bed of the fingers but the main hold on the cue will still be the forefinger.

Jimmy white uses this method to stop the cue whereas Ronnie uses his second finger to stop the cue. Actually, I hate to admit it but I find using the second finger to be more productive for me. So what I do is have my students try all the alternatives and see what they like best or feel works best for them. I even tell them all about Steve Davis' 'new' back 3 finger grip like Alex Higgins used to use.

Terry

[throtts]

I think the real question is,, just how loose should the grip be. Surely if its mega loose then the cue can off line.

Tried an over loose grip in match play yesterday and played rubbish snooker, won 5-3 playing a match play waiting game..

[nrage]

I think the real question is,, just how loose should the grip be. Surely if its mega loose then the cue can off line.

Hold the cue in your grip hand as normal, hold the shaft with your other hand. Loosen the grip hand until you can slide the cue in and out of the grip hand, using the other.. but, ensure there are no gaps showing around the cue i.e. between the cue and thumb/forefinger webbing. Try to keep the grip hand at this tension for the whole shot, do not consciously tighten at any point .. but, you will find you naturally tighten when your grip hand hits your chest. Imagine the wrist and forearm being 'fixed' but 'neutral', as in the wrist does not flex but there is no active tension/tightening keeping it there. Imagine the elbow locked in position behind your head but able to bend freely (you perhaps imagine locking the shoulder and upper arm instead).

[throtts]

Hold the cue in your grip hand as normal, hold the shaft with your other hand. Loosen the grip hand until you can slide the cue in and out of the grip hand, using the other.. but, ensure there are no gaps showing around the cue i.e. between the cue and thumb/forefinger webbing. Try to keep the grip hand at this tension for the whole shot, do not consciously tighten at any point .. but, you will find you naturally tighten when your grip hand hits your chest. Imagine the wrist and forearm being 'fixed' but 'neutral', as in the wrist does not flex but there is no active tension/tightening keeping it there. Imagine the elbow locked in position behind your head but able to bend freely (you perhaps imagine locking the shoulder and upper arm instead).

Thank you, nrage.

That pretty much sums up now what I was doing wrong.

Try that advice this Saturday morning...
Cheez.

[HUFRO]

Hi nrage;

I am following your advice for practicing the grip/cue action. I am doing long blues from bulk and also from the other end, but you said in your post that try blues not from the bulkhead, instead closer to the blue. Why is that so? Is for getting the feeling of the grip?

Thanks

Hufro

[nrage]

Hi nrage;

I am following your advice for practicing the grip/cue action. I am doing long blues from bulk and also from the other end, but you said in your post that try blues not from the bulkhead, instead closer to the blue. Why is that so? Is for getting the feeling of the grip?

Yes. The closer the white is to the blue, the more likely/easily you will play the shot softly/slowly, which makes it easier to keep the grip loose, and get a good feel for what is happening. Start close, once you can keep the grip nice and loose there, move a little farther back and repeat. Eventually you should hopefully be able to play even power shots with a nice relaxed/loose grip.

[HUFRO]

Hi nrage and Terry;

Here I posted a video of my cue action. I thought I was doing quite well untill I saw the video. I still don't know why my right arm is going to the right and then onto my chest again. I suspect is something to do with my hand hitting the chest. May be I have to separate my cueing arm more from my body. Also I notice that I should slow down all my cue action a lot, from feathers to backswing.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Hufro


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Ry8MK52Yk

[jrc750]

Couldn't watch that video with you backing up so close to the camera like that

[TomBombd]

I still don't know why my right arm is going to the right and then onto my chest again. I suspect is something to do with my hand hitting the chest.

I believe I have a similar kind of problem with my cueing. I'm gonna have to videotape it later to see. Today I tried potting blues from the spot and having the cueball follow through to the middle pocket. I kept missing the cueball right of the pocket. This leads me to believe that the sideways movement of my arm is throwing the cueball slightly to the right, and thus missing the follow right with top spin. Does this sound logical to you guys... nrage, Terry?

And by the way I'm no expert, but while we're on the subject of "closing the grip too early", it looks to me HUFRO like you're gripping the cue pretty tight at the end of your swing. But like I said: what do I know.

[TomBombd]

I still don't know why my right arm is going to the right and then onto my chest again. I suspect is something to do with my hand hitting the chest.

I believe I have a similar kind of problem with my cueing. I'm gonna have to videotape it later to see. Today I tried potting blues from the spot and having the cueball follow through to the middle pocket. I kept missing the cueball right of the pocket. This leads me to believe that the sideways movement of my arm is throwing the cueball slightly to the right, and thus missing the follow right with top spin. Does this sound logical to you guys... nrage, Terry?

And by the way I'm no expert, but while we're on the subject of "closing the grip too early", it looks to me HUFRO like you're gripping the cue pretty tight at the end of your swing. But like I said: what do I know.

[nrage]

I believe I have a similar kind of problem with my cueing. I'm gonna have to videotape it later to see. Today I tried potting blues from the spot and having the cueball follow through to the middle pocket. I kept missing the cueball right of the pocket. This leads me to believe that the sideways movement of my arm is throwing the cueball slightly to the right, and thus missing the follow right with top spin. Does this sound logical to you guys... nrage, Terry?

Yes, it's the most common fault I believe. Your hand goes right, the cue tip goes left, the white goes right, the object goes left and the white carries on to the right missing the pocket. I have the exact same fault, on video. I have managed to reduce it a lot, and even get rid of it for brief periods but it's still a work in progress.

And by the way I'm no expert, but while we're on the subject of "closing the grip too early", it looks to me HUFRO like you're gripping the cue pretty tight at the end of your swing. But like I said: what do I know.

This is the thing, it's unconscious and very hard to stop. Notice also how the grip hand drops down, this is probably an unconscious effort to avoid the chest. The dropping down, causes the movement to the right (because of the elbow position - slightly behind the back) which you then (unconsciously) correct bringing it back to the left. It's exactly the same problem as I have/had. Also notice the slight twist in most of the shots, where the bend in the wrist lessens and the top of the hand is turned more to the outside, I have this exact same twist, and attempting to remove it has made the most difference for me.

To remove it I get down on the shot, check the position and bend in my wrist and remember how it feels. Then I feather slowly, pausing at front and back to check how it feels. Then on the shot I try to replicate that feeling. To remove the grip drop you should play a full shot slowly, pushing right into the chest. Learn that chest contact position and attempt to replicate it with increasing speed shots (no white/object balls involved, just the cue action). Also, in this chest contact position check the wrist position/rotation to ensure it has not rotated from the starting position, this is where I notice the rotation the most.

[HUFRO]

Hi nrage;

Well, finally it seems that I started to straighten my cue action thanks to your advice on bending slightly the wrist (actually as Terry advocates, resting the cue on the first finger pads so my wrist is turnedto the right), and all the way "feeling" that grip, during the slow feathers, backswing and more important during the delivery. That last part was lacking in my previous practices, and I think that was the reason my arm moved to the right. Also I am more concious of the chest contact, remembering the point of contact in my chest and try to replicate on every shot.

I didn't taped myself yet, I want to practice a few more days.

Thanks

Hufro

[HUFRO]

Hi nrage;

Well, finally it seems that I started to straighten my cue action thanks to your advice on bending slightly the wrist (actually as Terry advocates, resting the cue on the first finger pads so my wrist is turnedto the right), and all the way "feeling" that grip, during the slow feathers, backswing and more important during the delivery. That last part was lacking in my previous practices, and I think that was the reason my arm moved to the right. Also I am more concious of the chest contact, remembering the point of contact in my chest and try to replicate it on every shot.

I didn't taped myself yet, I want to practice a few more days.

Thanks

Hufro

[agromann]

Hi Hugo
Reg your video…Could it be that your back fingers are rotating the queue and you still snatch at it on the final stroke?
Hard to see but if you rotate the queue it will affect the line as you "snatch" at the cue at the end of the stroke. Have a look at my exercise suggesting (bottom pg 3 of this thread) and focus on your back fingers. Maybe place some talc or wear a 3 finger glove on the last three fingers. (I know it's for the bridge hand....) If you feel the fingers slip strongly, you'll know that you rely on them too heavily.
What helped me was straightening my grip so that the second/centre joint of my index finger points down. Couple that with Terry’s tips on where the cue rests easy between index finger and thumb.
Give it a go and play those slow pocket shots (page 3).
Angle / POV was tough but it also looked like the tip lifted. I.e.: the way your backhand moved after delivery, I would gather that the tip was moving up. Don’t know if you lift your chin but it could be your grip/snatch that creates the ‘wobble” (Very common.)
You can check that by marking a spot on the white, placing it so the spot is at 6o’clock and below centre, cure for a normal screw back and see if your chalk leaves a smudge on the dot you marked. If it’s above, I am right about the above.
Also, it may be worth getting someone to look at you full front during a shot to see if you are actually hitting the white dead centre. Depending on your eye dominance and stance, it can look straight to you and askew to the observer.
Let me know….went through exactly that…