Good tips to master the use of side spin??

[thelongbomber]

Oh, back to the original topic, try this trick on a snooker table to understand spin better: Line up the cue ball just behind the brown spot (so you don't wear it down) and try to cue directly parallel to the black spot and one tip off centre. Depending on your cue action imperfection, you will find that one spin (left/right) will consistently be better than the other side of the cue ball. Right handers tend to have better right spin and visa versa (although this is not always the case).

Something I did recently was use this camera to view myself in various line up positions: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en...udio/Q2F-00001. I was able to much more clearly see what was happening to my cue action on straight shots, off the rale, etc.

[nrage]

Certainly not and I speak from experience. If that were true it would be very noticeable and nobody would play with those.

It would only be noticeable if the decrease in range was significant, the cues I have here are rubbish and they decrease the range by almost a 1/2 tip width. They were worse when the tip hadn't been shaped correctly (they were essentially flat with square edges - unshaped).

I was imagining a decent low end mass cue might loose 1/10th of a tip or less from the top and bottom of the range.. basically so little as to make very little difference to the amount of screw or top you can produce. All this is just guesswork based on my understanding of the physics, which is at the 'well-informed-amateur' level at best... so I'll bow to your experience on the matter

[sootyvrs]

Found this video on back hand english (side) which I find useful. Not sure if anyone uses this principal in snooker or UK Pool?

http://www.youtube.com/user/DrDaveBi...41/5T3ai0SM1aw

[ace man]

Found this video on back hand english (side) which I find useful. Not sure if anyone uses this principal in snooker or UK Pool?

http://www.youtube.com/user/DrDaveBi...41/5T3ai0SM1aw

I usually like that guy's videos, but not this one. Method like this requires changing the line of aim as well as stance a little bit while down on the shot. Pivot length? Do I really need to know this? Come on, whatever happened to feel for the shot? I don't see anything useful in this. Does anyone?

If I ever see Higgins or Ronnie O adjusting while down on a shot like that I might get interested. Until then I'll stick to normal method of choosing the line of aim before getting down on shot, whether spinning the ball or not.

[nrage]

I usually like that guy's videos, but not this one. Method like this requires changing the line of aim as well as stance a little bit while down on the shot. Pivot length? Do I really need to know this? Come on, whatever happened to feel for the shot? I don't see anything useful in this. Does anyone?

If I ever see Higgins or Ronnie O adjusting while down on a shot like that I might get interested. Until then I'll stick to normal method of choosing the line of aim before getting down on shot, whether spinning the ball or not.

Actually, yeah, I think it might be useful. It might even explain why some days we just can't seem to miss a pot, and others we struggle. On those days we cannot miss, perhaps we're using the exact pivot length for a bridge.. what this means is that any unintentional side is essentially ignored (until the white hits a cushion).

It might appear that you're changing the aim line, but in actual fact you select the aim line before you get down, then you get down on the aim line with the tip on center ball. Then without moving the body you move the grip hand in or out, to get the desired tip offset for right/left hand side. Then you attempt to stroke through on the new line .. which is not the aim line, it's just a desired-amount-of-side line. The white should travel along the original aim line, unless you move your bridge, or you've got the pivot length wrong.

All in all, given the restriction it places on your bridge length, I think it's only going to be useful in certain limited situations .. like the break shot in pool, when you want the white to go straight into the rack, regardless of any unintentional side.

I'm going to have a play with it and see how useful I find it.

[komakino]

I think there's a lot of pros for the pivot or back hand technique. I use it almost exclusively.

Most of the TV pros have 8 hours a day to practice and get used to all of the problems with speed / distance etc when adjusting aim for side-spin shots. I don't.

The pivot technique allows me a quick and dirty way to play side-spin shots without adjusting my potting aim...the Holy Grail in my opinion when I first tried it.

Slow shot - long bridge
Medium shot - medium bridge
Fast shot - short bridge.

Essentially conservation of momentum - (speed of shot x mass of cue in front of bridge = constant)

These combinations give me approx zero squirt/deflection of the cue ball nearly all of the time. Everyone's cue is different though and you can get used to your own by potting nothing but full ball pots at varying speeds and using the pivot method with lots of side.

As a logical leap/conclusion from the above, using the varying bridge lengths when playing different paced pots WITHOUT side-spin gives me a little insurance from cue ball deflection caused by unintentional side-spin too

This technique is not for everyone I admit - certainly not traditional if that's what you strive for - but lets me extend my breaks no end. I'm an hour or two a week player at most and always have been, but I still got a 75 in last week's league match

[sootyvrs]

I'm certainly intrigued with this technique and next time I'm off to practice, I'm going to give it a go.

I assume that with time and experience you will know where to hold the butt end to get the correct bridge length for different strength shots.

I like the theory of this as it allows for normal centre aiming while down on the shot e.g. 1/2 ball at any given distance and then a pivot (left or right) will ensure there is no deflection.... Seems almost to easy but I'm sure it isn't.

[eaoin11]

I think there's a lot of pros for the pivot or back hand technique. I use it almost exclusively.

Most of the TV pros have 8 hours a day to practice and get used to all of the problems with speed / distance etc when adjusting aim for side-spin shots. I don't.

The pivot technique allows me a quick and dirty way to play side-spin shots without adjusting my potting aim...the Holy Grail in my opinion when I first tried it.

Slow shot - long bridge
Medium shot - medium bridge
Fast shot - short bridge.

Essentially conservation of momentum - (speed of shot x mass of cue in front of bridge = constant)

These combinations give me approx zero squirt/deflection of the cue ball nearly all of the time. Everyone's cue is different though and you can get used to your own by potting nothing but full ball pots at varying speeds and using the pivot method with lots of side.

As a logical leap/conclusion from the above, using the varying bridge lengths when playing different paced pots WITHOUT side-spin gives me a little insurance from cue ball deflection caused by unintentional side-spin too

This technique is not for everyone I admit - certainly not traditional if that's what you strive for - but lets me extend my breaks no end. I'm an hour or two a week player at most and always have been, but I still got a 75 in last week's league match

This is interesting. Now you mention it I think I have been varying the bridge length without really knowing why.

[vmax4steve]

There is an awful lot of bollocks on the internet about using sidespin in US pool, throw and deflection and shaft stiffness and all that makes it seem like some sort of magic art that requires so much thought that it's not worth bothering with. All you have to do is aim the cue at either the right or left of the centre of the cue ball and then get used to how much the cue ball moves off the line of aim and adjust your shots accordingly.
You should notice immediately that your shots will miss the pocket on the thin side so adjust your line of aim to the near jaw of the pocket and go from there. You will then notice that the cue ball will behave differently for certain cloth conditions, heavy nap will make the cue ball respond more to side and thin nap will make the cue ball respond less, also the harder you play a shot then the bigger the adjustment will need to be.
Then there is playing with side at distance where the cue ball will come back onto and sometimes go beyond the line of aim as it responds to the nap of the cloth. For these shots I would recomend that you don't aim the shot too thick as you would when close in, but aim on the correct line allowing the cue ball to come back onto that correct line. This is difficult to judge at first and takes a lot of practise and trial and error.
Against the nap of the cloth the cue ball played with side responds differently again: as it moves off the line of aim and then comes back onto the line, as it slows the action of the side spin against the nap then makes the cue ball go the other way than it would when played with the nap. For this reason long shots against the nap with side are not recomended unless you wish to use this effect when playing a safety or a snooker escape.
Sounds like it is very difficult doesn't it, but with practise and getting the feel of the shot you will get used to it and become a better player as a result. And you won't need an anti deflection cue because there is no such thing as a cue that is too light for side or a cue that is too heavy for side, you just need to get used to what your own cue does. The old billiards masters were using cues of about 15ozs on heavy composite balls on cloths with heavy naps.
End mass.........what a load of bollocks. Miscues are caused by bad cueing and/or failing to chalk the tip. Trouble with nrage is that rather than gaining knowledge from experience he looks it up on the internet and believes everything he sees/reads from people who are doing nothing more than trying to sell him something. God knows what he looked up when planning to lose his virginity. I bet he found a site about penis end mass and deflection problems when using condoms.

[ace man]

vmax is 100% correct.

Kids today just don't want to put the practice time in. Seems like more and more players are after 'silver bullet'. I have to say I'm a bit surprised that some snooker players would even consider funky techniques from US pool. It is usually the other way around. Plenty of US pool players copy principles from snooker and they are right to do so.

Like I said before, if I ever see any top snooker pro player visibly pivoting their cue and/or adjusting their stance while down on a shot I may take notice.
Some people think that just because we're amateurs who don't play as much as pros that we should not play the shots pro players play or even use their approach. I think that is 100% wrong. Even if you are the worst player in the world you should try to learn from the best.

[jrc750]

Good post vmax, the last bit made me laugh

[komakino]

So there you have it kids....the forum experts state that there is only one way of doing everything. Nothing else works so don't bother trying anything else or ever experimenting.

How can pivot theory be bollox when it works consistently for me? If you don't like it then stick with the traditional method. There's way too much inflexibility on this forum from some members.

[eaoin11]

So there you have it kids....the forum experts state that there is only one way of doing everything. Nothing else works so don't bother trying anything else or ever experimenting.

How can pivot theory be bollox when it works consistently for me? If you don't like it then stick with the traditional method. There's way too much inflexibility on this forum from some members.

Well said. Those three old schoolers really made me laugh with their crass style of imparting wisdom.

[nrage]

End mass.........what a load of bollocks. Miscues are caused by bad cueing and/or failing to chalk the tip. Trouble with nrage is that rather than gaining knowledge from experience he looks it up on the internet and believes everything he sees/reads from people who are doing nothing more than trying to sell him something. God knows what he looked up when planning to lose his virginity. I bet he found a site about penis end mass and deflection problems when using condoms.

How original, a personal attack against someone who has a different opinion to yours. Imagine my surprise.

The truth of the matter is that there is a lot of actual 'evidence' for the effect of tip end mass, it exists and has always existed whether you like it or not. It's sad really, you have a lot of experience, and most of what you say is good solid advice, but .. you can't see to refrain from attacking people who disagree or have new ideas.

So, from this point on I am blocking your comments (which I know will make you ever so sad) but I can't be bothered dealing with them. Have a nice life.

[vmax4steve]

These combinations give me approx zero squirt/deflection of the cue ball nearly all of the time.

Try a few shots using this pivot technique with the cue ball touching the cushion. Play the cue ball along the cushion it is touching using right and left hand side and tell me how much deflection off the line of aim there is. If there is zero like you say then the cue ball should hug the cushion as if a plain ball shot was played.