Snooker Stance. Am I doing it right?

[orenzai]

Hi,
I've been playing snooker for approx 3-4 years now. Nothing serious. I just like the game a lot. I find my cueing to be rather inconsistent at times. My stance could be at blame here. While I have watched this YouTube video by Del Hill talking about the 4 point contact, I cant seem to get my chest to touch my cue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSK4w_9S_x0

I have a pretty nice stance with one leg bent and another locked and the touching chin etc. I tried to make my cue touch my chest but it seems to be interefering with my cueing. Or am I interpreting the video wrongly?

One thing to note though. when I'm wearing a collar t-shirt, the edge of my right collar will be brushing my cue. Is this normal?

[DeanH]

From your description, "collar brushing the cue", I believe what possibly could be wrong are:
1. you have the cue butt too high, i.e. the cue is not as flat, horizontal, parallel to the baize (however you want to call it).
2. you have the cue too far away from your body.
If you flatten the cue position, the cue will probably be too far from the chest even more than before, so bring that in as well and you will gently rub your chest.
Do you have a playing partner that can watch your stance and comment, or video yourself from behind and from the side. Then the coaches on this forum will be able to make informative suggestions.
All the best

[orenzai]

Here is a shot of me starting a game. I tried going lower but whenever the cue ball is further in the middle of the table, my knuckles tend to hit the table itself when delivering my shot. Is this too high?

[DeanH]

From what I can see from the photo you are "touching" your chest enough to be ok but could go closer a tad.
When they describe touching the chest, it does not mean you are leaning you weight onto the cue itself but just that it is close enough to your body to not have space to waggle the cue.
Hitting knuckles is something that can happen, but obviously every position on the table you have to make small adjustments, but consistancy of your stance and comfort as well is most important.
I would also say that you are holding the butt to far forward for the shot you were playing, maybe this is for the benefit of the photo but maybe move you hand back an inch or two, not all the way to the end of the butt, but without increasing your bridge gap from the white, which looks ok from the photo.
Having your hand further back to an inch or two may relax the forearm and elbow just enough that will aid your chest contact and cue delivery.
By the way, more photos of the setup of the snooker room you have there, looks superb!
Hopefully a coach or two may come onto this thread to help you further.

[orenzai]

I used to hold quite far back during the first couple of years when I picked up snooker. Then, some adult came and corrected me with all the correct stance and told me to hold my cue 90 degrees when the tip is in contact with the cue ball. I have gotten so used to it that now, if I hold the cue an inch or two further back, I feel very powerless. Here is a video of me cueing. I realized that my cue is held inwards.

[orenzai]

I used to hold quite far back during the first couple of years when I picked up snooker. Then, some adult came and corrected me with all the correct stance and told me to hold my cue 90 degrees when the tip is in contact with the cue ball. I have gotten so used to it that now, if I hold the cue an inch or two further back, I feel very powerless. Here is a video of me cueing. I realized that my cue is held inwards.

[DeanH]

It must have been just a result of having the photo taken but you have not hit the white and your forearm is already past 90deg, maybe just for the photo.
Back to your first question, touching the chest, from the photo and the video it does seem to me that you are touching the chest at a nice place and ok position.
One thing from the video, you have a good front pause, pull-back, back pause, and delivery but you do have a lot of upper body and head movement through out all these components, try to stay absolutely from when you get down to after you have delivered.
All the best

[Terry Davidson]

orenzai:

As Dean says, KEEP THE UPPER BODY STILL from the time you bridge hand hits the table until AFTER you deliver the cue. (Don't even breathe in or out when down on the shot!).

Also, you should be fine as the cue should be just touching the waistcoat or shirt and not 'locked' against the body but your cue is too far above the cushion and it should only be 1 chalk height or closer and it should not drop during the delivery.

On EVERY shot the grip hand should come through to the chest and you should stay still with no movement in that position for at least 0.5-1 second AFTER the shot.

The National Coach for Malaysia is Joe Ong (English version of name I guess, I certified him here at my coaching facility) but I'm not sure what city he is in but you should go see him as it appears you also have something not quite right with your grip and that is too difficult to explain in this format

Terry

[tommygunner1309]

Orenzai - looking at the picture you posted it seems to me that your elbow is too high, which will inhibit your fist coming through to your chest just below the nipple. Try lowering the elbow so that it is in a direct line back from your shoulder. This should keep the cue parallel to the table which is where you need to deliver it.
Also it looks as though your wrist is cocked. Is this because you are gripping the butt of the cue too tight? remember to drop your back three fingers of your grip hand when feathering and on final delivery.

[orenzai]

orenzai:

As Dean says, KEEP THE UPPER BODY STILL from the time you bridge hand hits the table until AFTER you deliver the cue. (Don't even breathe in or out when down on the shot!).

Also, you should be fine as the cue should be just touching the waistcoat or shirt and not 'locked' against the body but your cue is too far above the cushion and it should only be 1 chalk height or closer and it should not drop during the delivery.

On EVERY shot the grip hand should come through to the chest and you should stay still with no movement in that position for at least 0.5-1 second AFTER the shot.

The National Coach for Malaysia is Joe Ong (English version of name I guess, I certified him here at my coaching facility) but I'm not sure what city he is in but you should go see him as it appears you also have something not quite right with your grip and that is too difficult to explain in this format

Terry

Today, I inhaled and held my breath while I cued and it was amazing! My long pots where much more accurate. I'll keep an eye on my cue level though. I now make sure it is a 1 chalk height away from the table and not too steep. I dont know about Joe Ong. In fact, Malaysian snooker is very underdeveloped. Its so hard to find a non-smoking snooker room in the whole country. Pity non-smokers like us.

Orenzai - looking at the picture you posted it seems to me that your elbow is too high, which will inhibit your fist coming through to your chest just below the nipple. Try lowering the elbow so that it is in a direct line back from your shoulder. This should keep the cue parallel to the table which is where you need to deliver it.
Also it looks as though your wrist is cocked. Is this because you are gripping the butt of the cue too tight? remember to drop your back three fingers of your grip hand when feathering and on final delivery.

My last 2-3 fingers are usually not touching my cue. I'd say that my grip is more on the loose side. Must've just been the picture Nonetheless, will take note of my grip

It must have been just a result of having the photo taken but you have not hit the white and your forearm is already past 90deg, maybe just for the photo.
Back to your first question, touching the chest, from the photo and the video it does seem to me that you are touching the chest at a nice place and ok position.
One thing from the video, you have a good front pause, pull-back, back pause, and delivery but you do have a lot of upper body and head movement through out all these components, try to stay absolutely from when you get down to after you have delivered.
All the best

It's still very weird though. I guess its all just practice. Even while holding my breath, I still "feel" wobbly when im down on a shot. I'm working hard on reducing my upper body movements now.

Damn I need someone to record myself playing! TSF rocks! Lots of helpful advice. Thanks!!!

[DeanH]

Good feedback, I must say that I do not conciously hold my breathe when down on the shot, but thinking about it, I probabaly do not breathe - or maybe gently breathe out on the draw back, back, pause, then not breathe in on the delivery. Not sure, I may test myself next practise frame.
"feel" wobbly - in the head? maybe that could be holding your breathe toooooo long
or maybe... just had another look at your video and the photo, if you are wobbly body-wise you left left could go a tad further out, from the photo your left foot is a nice distance "in-front" of you, but from the video your left foot does not seem to be out to the side enough, maybe move it further out by an inch or so (not too much). Usual coaching tip is for the feet to be shoulder width apart but a little wider will not hurt if comfortable.
This will make your stance more stable and will allow your body and head to be still much easier.
It may not feel comfortable to start with but give it a try.
What I noticed in the video is that you are not consistant with your feet placement, the second or third shot, it seemed that your feet where very close together.
If extra distance is either uncomfortable or does not help, maybe try bending your left knee a tad, this will again allow for greater stability as your weight distribution could be better.
Any more phtotos of that snooker romm from the photo above?

[orenzai]

Hi!
HAHAH you're a funny guy. I meant wobbly as in my body not my head :P I realized now that I pay more attention to my stance and my overall posture, I tend to do "adjustments" to myself when I want to play a shot. I always stand back up and reposition myself so that my body is in the right position. I will, call one of my buddies to take more videos of me while I cue so that I can see what's wrong with myself and let you guys analyze

Oh and the picture of the snooker room. Thats the one in my college. It really isnt all that great. I just happen to play there because there was a mini-tournament going on. I'll take some shots of my regular training spot

[DeanH]

Hi, you are doing good by "resetting" yourself if the adjustments become too much and you are not in a comfortable/proper posture.
Cool, a college with a snooker room, my old place did not even have a pool table!
All the best
Cheers

[orenzai]

I think I have found out what might be the problem for my inconsistent cueing. Its the grip. Currently, I'm holding my cue with my index finger and my finger. The remaining 3 fingers do not touch my cue. Sort of like how Joe Swail holds his cue. I found that when I hold it with my whole hand (with the 3 fingers "resting" on the cue, not holding tightly). I get a more consistent shot. Problem is, with this grip, I cant seem to cue properly. Probably because I'm not used to this new grip.

Because I get so paranoid about my position now, I start to go down on a shot, and then adjust myself WHILE im down on the shot. Ugh.. bad habits. Im not cueing properly!!