Considering starting to peck instead of drive

[stjimmy18-1991]

Hey guys, i've got two shots of myself playing here to show you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aeo8K...el_video_title

I'd like to make it clear that the first shot is a screw shot and that the second one is a top spin shot. I hope that you can take into account that during the first screw shot the cue ball was relatively close to the object ball, and therefore i needed to get the cue out of the way quickly.

Nethertheless, upon watching these videos back and from looking in a mirror, it is evident to me that during my follow through and elbow drop that my elbow is moving into my body.

Now, im not 100 percent sure that this is a definate reason, but i believe it is a contributing factor to me having random patches on inconsistancy in my game.

Of course, this only happens when i drive through the ball and drop my elbow. Therefore, i had a small practice session today experimenting with keeping my elbow up and pecking the ball instead. See Neil Robertson.

My potting and straight cueing increased and so did my timing.

Of course, i would want to keep my elbow drop in my action without my arm moving in. But i have no idea how to cure it or how it would even effect the action in the first place.

The elbow drop does promote a lovely drive through the ball and it feels great, but i just cant seem to cue straight enough to pot well with it. And since the tip will raise on delivery, i find it a constant struggle to get my timing right and get the co-ordination between my bridge distance and parralel back arm right. This will result in me either getting far too much reaction on the ball or none at all.


My head is a total mess at the moment as i have worked on dropping my elbow for two years and actually seeing it in action and how horrible it looks from behind has upset me.

I am planning on going to see Del Hill very soon and have him totally look over my technique. I feel as if i am doing something totally wrong with it, as evidenced by the video, which is one of the reasons i am considering just pecking instead.

Till then, any thoughts would be appreciated.

[CoachGavin]

Just because you do not drive it does not mean you have to peck. Pecking at the ball is when you decelerate into the white and your grip goes up into your armpit as you play the ball, leading to a very small follow through. Watch Peter Ebdon as he does this.

Neil Robertson, Judd Trump and some other pros keep their elbow up but get through the white and so they do not need to drop the elbow. Other pros do drop the elbow but it does needs to be timed. If I was you I would video yourself from the front and see if you are cueing in a straight line. You need to find out if the elbow movement is causing your tip to go across the white. Only change it if it is causing a problem and not cos it looks wrong.

I would also try starting from the finishing position and working in reverse. Your finishing position looks straight so its your address position that has the fault with the elbow out. Start with your grip in the finishing position and bring the cue back straight with a very loose grip. You can use the camera to see if you are bringing it back along the line. One other thing I noticed is watch your thumb. On the backswing it points inward towards your body whereas as you complete the shot it has straightened and is pointing down which is where it should point. Therefore your hand and grip has twisted during the shot.

Hope some of this helps.

[CoachGavin]

Just because you do not drive it does not mean you have to peck. Pecking at the ball is when you decelerate into the white and your grip goes up into your armpit as you play the ball, leading to a very small follow through. Watch Peter Ebdon as he does this.

Neil Robertson, Judd Trump and some other pros keep their elbow up but get through the white and so they do not need to drop the elbow. Other pros do drop the elbow but it does needs to be timed. If I was you I would video yourself from the front and see if you are cueing in a straight line. You need to find out if the elbow movement is causing your tip to go across the white. Only change it if it is causing a problem and not cos it looks wrong.

I would also try starting from the finishing position and working in reverse. Your finishing position looks straight so its your address position that has the fault with the elbow out. Start with your grip in the finishing position and bring the cue back straight with a very loose grip. You can use the camera to see if you are bringing it back along the line. One other thing I noticed is watch your thumb. On the backswing it points inward towards your body whereas as you complete the shot it has straightened and is pointing down which is where it should point. Therefore your hand and grip has twisted during the shot.

Hope some of this helps.

[Izzyfcuk]

Try one thing...........stand upright with chest out, shoulders pulled behind (not excessive) like you would at attention,

The idea here is not keep the shoulder socket locked in place....go down and take your shot, concentrating on just pushing the cue through at medium strength.

I noticed i had a similar issue that this and found that it was becos i was allowing my elbow to drow a little and moved my shoulder socket

[stjimmy18-1991]

Thanks alot for the feedback.

I've just stumped across this interesting video which is virtually the same problem as me!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQWUU...eature=related

According to T.G then, i should focus on correcting my back arm in the address position.

For me though, this is quite a radical change as i've been playing with my elbow sticking out since i've started playing. About 3 years now.

But could this explain why i have random inconsistancy in my game?

[CoachGavin]

If you read my post I suggested your address position is the fault as you seem to be straight at the end of delivery. It should also be easier to change something that is stationary rather than a moving arm. Usually when a player has their elbow out like you then it is because the grip is more in the palm of the hand. I spoke before that you thumb seemed in the wrong position. Grip the cue in address with your thumb pointing straight down so that the cue is in the bed of your fingers rather than the palm of your hand. This should help bring the elbow straight. Give it a go.

[GravityCue]

Completely agree with Gavin here. Alignment wise, what the arm does is generally dictated by what the hand is doing. If the hand is in the optimum position and doing the right things, the rest of the body is much more likely to follow suit, starting with the cue arm as this is of course the next link in the chain where the body is concerned.

[cally]

You need to adjust your 'grip' to solve this bud. look in the mirror and adjust where your holding the cue in your hand until it brings that elbow up/in a little. No need to get it bang on straight, but the main thing you need to work on is getting the elbow to finish the shot the same as it started... if ya get me...

Same sorta thing As gavin said really i suppose after looking back through the posts...

[Terry Davidson]

Very few players get the grip correct and it's the most important thing in the technique as it controls the cue. When the grip is not correct it leads to all sorts of problems (as I've only recently found out myself).

To get the grip that is correct for you (there are a lot of 'correct' grips and it really depends on the player's set-up and physique), and that is as many coaches have said over the years. Lay the cue on the table and pick it up like you were going to hit someone over the head with it, or in other words just like a hammer when you drive a nail. Of course the pressure is a lot less.

Now the most important part is as nrage has said...I hate to use the word 'grip' as it denotes pressure and that is exactly what you don't want. The 'hold' on the cue is done with ONLY the top inside of the thumb and forefinger with the thumb pointing STRAIGHT DOWN towards the floor and the forefinger in a VERY loose loop and the back 3 fingers barely touching the butt and exerting NO PRESSURE at all.

The amount of wrist cock with this grip depends on your physique and how much the elbow needs to come in or go out. Get a mirror and set it up along the baulkline and try the above grip and cock the wrist until you get the elbow pretty well aligned over the butt of the cue and behind the head. DO NOT try and adjust this with the shoulder socket and leave it in the same position as when you are standing erect and relaxed to prevent any shoulder socket movement, which is a disaster for straight cueing.

Cue directly into the mirror slowly once you have everything lined up the way you want it. The elbow need not be perfectly behind the cue (Higgins and Hendry hang in a bit, Williams out probably too much and forget about trying to copy Cope). Backswing very slowly, slower than you normally would, do a rear pause if you use one and then deliver the cue very slowly right to the end of your normal delivery with the elbow dropping and check and see if the elbow drops straight (which it should do).

I have been playing for the past 5 years with my elbow out about 3" with a grip that was too tight to start initially and that led to me cueing across the cueball left-to-right and my long potting was just awful and also the grip was promoting minore upper body movement. After I recently certified a Master Coach his exam was to correct my delivery and get it consistently straight (this was a bonus for me) and he actually did a pretty good job of getting my grip corrected first and then getting the elbow into alignment virtually directly over the cue. Now I go through the cueball with constant acceleration and the only time the cue moves off-line is AFTER my elbow drops and the grip hand hits the chest, when I get a little vibration to the left but that would be after I've driven the cue about 5" THROUGH AND BEYOND the cueball.

My new Master Coach used a mirror and a video camera with frame-by-frame analysis, which really gave the student (me) real-time feedback and helped me to correct it. Now I have about 2 months worth of work in practice to get this cemented into my technique. I also found when I'm cueing well with this grip and technique I get a natural rear pause which is there but somewhat short, but who cares? I'm at least now cueing straight!

Terry

[jas19]

Hi mate just looked at your video (and i'd like to stress that i am no coach) but i think it's almost impossible to keep your elbow on line after final delivery when the elbow is dropped on follow through. I think it may be because it is hanging out from the body at address. I think the only chance of keeping the delivery straight after you have dropped the elbow is if your elbow is in line with the cue to begin with. I know you said there is a lovely feel to the shot when you drop the elbow but do you really need to be dropping it? Is your grip hand at vertical at address if so try moving it up towards the butt end of the cue about an inch but then don't drop the elbow and see how you get on. After all the Holy Grail we are all searching for is to deliver the cue straight consistantly whether your arm is hanging inside or outside the body isn't that much of an issue just look at the top boys (Hendry,Higgins,Williams, Selby,O'sullivan)all have a different set up but achieve their straight delivery goal. Again i am no coach but i think to have any success with dropping your elbow it needs to be directly over the cue from start to completion. Let me know if this helps mate

jas19