To all you coaches out there.........

[DandyA]

nrage: do you mean that a player's back should be ideally flat straight parallel to the table ? this seems to contradict the fact that lifting your right shoulder (if right handed) helps a lot to bring the cue under the chin and closer to the chest and also align the cue to the dominant eye, this will mean that the back as such will not be parallel to the table. Almost every pro I watched on TV does not seem to have a very straight back except from those who have their shoulders roughly on the same level, something which is not ideal, at least from my point of view. what do you think ? thanks

I have to admit I didn't understand nrage's comments about dwot's "curve in the back" either so I'll be interested in nrage's clarification too ... it seems to me dwot is fairly tall and broad shouldered so (being a left-hander) his left shoulder is left of the cue, his elbow and shoulder are parallel to the line of the cue so his forearm slopes inwards (from vertical) ... I'm much the same (albeit right-handed) as are, I think, all the taller professionals ...

I've spent many happy hours in front of a mirror until I finally concluded there's nothing I can do about it, the game was clearly designed for people who are 5' 9" or so and the rest of us have to live with it

On a plus note, on the shots we saw from behind, the distance between dwot's grip hand and hips looked fine to me ... 3" or thereabouts ...

[snookergr]

....
I've spent many happy hours in front of a mirror until I finally concluded there's nothing I can do about it, the game was clearly designed for people who are 5' 9" or so and the rest of us have to live with it
...

DandyA: me too ! I am 1.82 cm tall with longish arms (for my height) ... :-) this game is for people who don't have long arms and aren't that tall LOL (Steve Davis is my idol then) :-D

[Jono857280]

Few things on this:

1. You seem a little slumped - this can be corrected by reviewing posture.
2. You sighting maybe off a bit since you're looking at the floor.
3. Your left leg is sticking out an a odd acute angle - this could effect balance
4. You seemed to have developned a large black nose.
5. You head seems somewhat swollen and possibly stuffed with some synthetic cotton material

Reminding other players that " If you go down to woods today you're in for a big surprise' may not be good game etiquette

Other than that - you'd make a lovely gift for some child.

cheers,
Jono

[vmax4steve]

I have to admit I didn't understand nrage's comments about dwot's "curve in the back" either so I'll be interested in nrage's clarification too ... it seems to me dwot is fairly tall and broad shouldered so (being a left-hander) his left shoulder is left of the cue, his elbow and shoulder are parallel to the line of the cue so his forearm slopes inwards (from vertical) ... I'm much the same (albeit right-handed) as are, I think, all the taller professionals ...

I've spent many happy hours in front of a mirror until I finally concluded there's nothing I can do about it, the game was clearly designed for people who are 5' 9" or so and the rest of us have to live with it

On a plus note, on the shots we saw from behind, the distance between dwot's grip hand and hips looked fine to me ... 3" or thereabouts ...

Different strokes for different folks
Try changing your stance from square to more side on ie: left foot in front of the right foot rather than adjacent to it (right handers). This should bring your shoulder and forearm more in line with the shot. This is how I play and I'm six two with long arms and broad shoulders and it works for me. Negates having that twist in your back that Terry advocates which can be uncomfortable for us taller players. This stance does stop you from getting close to the table on occasion so means playing more rest shots or using a mini butt more often.
Don't think nrage understands his own comments either otherwise he should be able to make a break higher than 26.

Terry
doesn't it tick you off even a little that nrage highjacks practically every coaching thread giving out your advice.

[thelongbomber]

Where did you get that scoreboard????

[Terry Davidson]

vmax:

Since he mostly gets it right I don't mind and it saves me some typing!

Terry

[DWOT]

Where did you get that scoreboard????

Over to you Steve....

I have to admit I'm still trying to comprehend the back thing myself.... Hendry's back always seemed twisted and at a weird angle with his arse sticking out massively to me yet it never stopped him from being one of the best ever..... anyhow I'm on holiday and supposed to be taking a break from snooker...... lol

Will certainly be looking into things when I return though as it's rather annoying being able to pot superb long pots but miss too many easy balls and don't make the breaks those pots deserve...

[nrage]

nrage: do you mean that a player's back should be ideally flat straight parallel to the table ? this seems to contradict the fact that lifting your right shoulder (if right handed) helps a lot to bring the cue under the chin and closer to the chest and also align the cue to the dominant eye, this will mean that the back as such will not be parallel to the table. Almost every pro I watched on TV does not seem to have a very straight back except from those who have their shoulders roughly on the same level, something which is not ideal, at least from my point of view. what do you think ? thanks

I didn't mean to suggest/imply that the back should be flat straight parallel to the table. What I meant was that the spine itself should have less of a curve in the forward/backward direction. You're correct, in order to get the right should in position (for a right hander) you will need to twist your back/shoulders, so the upper back will not be flat/parallel to the table. The lower back will be closer to being parallel but unless you're lying flat on your stomach I doubt you can get it completely parallel.

No, all I meant was that you should, ideally, be able to draw a fairly straight line from the hip to shoulder along the side of the torso, there should be no hump, or curve from hip to shoulder. Now, everyone is slightly different, my back has a slightly larger curve in at the base and out/over at the shoulders (due to a back condition which was diagnosed when I was 16), so my ideal position on the shot has these curves, the point is that the curve I have when down on the shot should be similar to the curve I have when standing upright (ignoring the additional twist down on the shot)

For some idea, compare DWOT to these pros...

Ronnie here at 2:18:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McThDshEgU0

Neil Robertson here at 2:15:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uICCASHy2DM

Shaun Muprhy here at 0:24:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhWRVYcnQLg

If we look at Mark Williams on the other hand, he has a bit more of a curve, but it seems to be predominantly in his lower spine, whereas his upper back is straight (along the side of the torso - ignoring the twist). See here at 1:25:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztWNLgn9ow4

Have I done a better job explaining what I meant?

[nrage]

DandyA: me too ! I am 1.82 cm tall with longish arms (for my height) ... :-) this game is for people who don't have long arms and aren't that tall LOL (Steve Davis is my idol then) :-D

Steve Davis is another good example, see here at 0:15...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysgJHBSoEMc

You can draw an almost perfectly straight line from his left hip to left shoulder, but you can't see the exact angle of the back very well, however if you look again at 0:40 you get a better idea of the angle his back/shoulders are on, and the twist in the spine.

[DWOT]

Cheers, more stuff to peruse upon my return....

Just had a quick look and can see what you're getting at, I slump at the table too much, must be the beer!....

[Terry Davidson]

The beer GUT perhaps? Didn't notice one though

Terry

[snookergr]

to nrage: thanks for clarifying :-) it is very comprehensive and helpful.

[DWOT]

The beer GUT perhaps? Didn't notice one though

Terry

A slight one Terry, but nothing too major, Not sure I need to go to the extremes of pratting around in the mirror though, just be more aware of posture????

[nrage]

A slight one Terry, but nothing too major, Not sure I need to go to the extremes of pratting around in the mirror though, just be more aware of posture????

What I suspect has happened, is that when you learned to get down, and learned to get your chest down on the cue, you did it by bending in the spine, instead of bending more at the hip. Using a mirror will show you exactly what's happening, rather than relying on proprioception (being internally aware of where your body is positioned) which is less accurate. You don't have to spend as long as I suggested, but spending less time will mean it is more likely you'll fall back into old habits, perhaps.

[Terry Davidson]

A mirror is quicker and provides instant feedback (and you don't have to 'prance'). However a video camera with lights and a tripod and taking specific shots from specific spots would be of more value although unless you have a computer there with the camera it would be a little time consuming as you would have to take the video and then go away and analyse it and then come back

Terry