Opening Hand

[tommy_boi]

I have been looking at some videos recently and trying to get my potting consistency up with my snooker and pool game, i have noticed on some videos where i get to see that most players when on the backswing there hand kinda opens up, and when they push through to hit the ball there hand closes on the cue, this is the best i can explain it, if you want a video of what i am on about i can provide one, anyways i have been trying this method in my game recently and have noticed a improved potting game, is this the usual way to cue, i normally keep my hand gripped round the cue the same at all times, but have noticed this other way helps but it feels weird as i am not used to it, so kinda fall back to the way i normally cue by accident which then i see my potting success fall, your help on this appreciated?.

[willtyson]

Yeah, I know what you mean, It's when your palm and little finger open up a little and then squeeze back onto the cue. I use this technique as well. This is probably the cause of higher pot success as it will help your timing if done properly. Hope your game continues to improve :snooker:

[nrage]

The opening/closing of the grip hand is caused by:
1. keeping the cue on a level plane throughout the stroke.
2. 'gripping' the cue with only forefinger + thumb (or 1st+2nd finger+thumb).

As the cue comes back on the back swing the cue remains level, and this requires the back 2 or 3 fingers to open. This is achieved by having a very lose 'grip' with these fingers, such that they only lightly rest on the cue at address position. The cue then essentially pushes them out of the way as it comes back. On the stroke itself they close again, but you need to be careful not to apply too much pressure too soon when you do, otherwise you're likely to introduce sideways movement, or snatch at it.

[ace man]

For years I shot pool exclusively with no opening static grip and no elbow drop at all on long backswing, i.e. typical uncontrolled US pool style cue action as this was my main game, no snooker back then. At that time I thought that "snooker style" simply meant having square stance and low head position which I used. I thought that I had "snooker technique" lol. Boy was I wrong. I started to practice snooker seriously one and a half years ago and realized that such backwing and gripping method is awful...had to make changes. I had to make the cue moving in piston like fashion...had to have pause, front and back, had to have decent preshot routine, had to stop body and head movement and had to introduce much slower and more controlled backswing. Basically I told myself if you're going to start practicing snooker, you better do it the right way or don't bother at all.
I'm far from complete and still have many faults, but my cue does move in piston like fashion now, although I must admit I do have problems keeping it on a plane at times. Some old habits die hard.

[CoachGavin]

nrage has it and I agree with him. If you keep all the fingers on the cue all the way through the action the cue butt lifts as your cue goes back. The tip will also lift on the follow through and the cue will come off your bridge. To keep the cue as level as possible the grip needs to loosen as the cue is brought back. The grip returns back to its original position as you strike the ball. However the opening of the hand is gradual and the grip will open more the longer the backswing so that on short, slow shots the grip does not need to open.

[tommy_boi]

So basically the opening of the hand on the backswing is an essential thing to do if you want to be doing everything right and have a good potting consistency, i was wondering if you would still need to open the hand on slow short shots as the backswing wouldn't be so long, but looks as if you have answered that question already for me, which is a no, the backswing wouldn't need to open.

[Terry Davidson]

Technically, the back of the hand doesn't need to open on ANY shot (see Alex Higgins and lately Steve Davis) however they are using the 3-finger grip and have the forefinger off the cue. Because it's necessary with this grip, the backswing is shorter and therefore the acceleration is faster on power shots which can lead to upper body movement.

This back 3-finger grip is excellent for those players who tighten the grip too early/tight in the delivery and (if right-handed) initially push the butt of the cue into their body and then correct that during the delivery and end up delivering the cue right-to-left something like in a bit of an 'arc' and this results in unintentional (usually left) side on the cueball and a lot of missed long pots especially.

So the way to do this is if you can learn to not tighten the grip on the cue (the back 3 fingers) until WELL AFTER the cueball has been struck (and ideally when the grip hand hits the chest) then that is definitely the correct way to go.

If you're having trouble with doing this correctly then perhaps the 3-finger grip is something you may want to try out as your back 3 fingers remain on the cue at all times (the elbow has to drop a little more on longer backswings to keep the cue near level as possible) as there should be no tendency for the butt of the cue to move to the left since you are not re-gripping the cue. However, remember to keep the grip loose enough so that the cue can still easily slide within it when you take the shaft in the other hand and try and slide the butt through the grip. Too tight a grip leads to more tension in the cueing arm and also leads to upper-body movement during both the backswing and delivery. Keep it loose!

Terry

[limecc]

Check out Del Hill's explanation (0.41 min) where he explains to Cazmac that this is another 'dummy' and it's this and the backswing length that generates the power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACqpu...f=mfu_in_order

In Part 4 he gets into more detail about the grip and 'engines'.
In Part 2 Del is at odds with Terry's advice that the grip hand should hit the chest (see also Part 4, 7.13). This is a Peter Ebdon 'Peck' where it's best to be a 'driver' and accelerate through the white dropping the elbow. He's also at odds with Nrage's comment that the cue should be level throughout the stroke and has memorised the words 'down' and 'up' in several languages because this is impossible (Part 4, 4.35).

[nrage]

He's also at odds with Nrage's comment that the cue should be level throughout the stroke and has memorised the words 'down' and 'up' in several languages because this is impossible (Part 4, 4.35).

Apologies, in an effort to keep things simple I didn't explain what I meant very well.

When I said "level plane" I should have said "constant plane". The difference being that the cue is never completely level, or parallel to the table, but it does stay on the same plane for most of the shot.. which is another point I wasn't clear on. It stays on the same plane until after the tip strikes the white, and the elbow drops.

The opening and closing of the hand allows you to keep the cue on a constant plane, once the hand has closed however it can't do any more, and at this point the elbow drops making it (nearly?/actually?) impossible to keep the cue on the same plane. I suspect that some people, given the correct length of cue and perfect timing could, using wrist and hand, keep the cue on the same plane even after dropping the elbow. I think Ronnie might possibly do, or have done this in the past.

The point is, however, that once the cue tip strikes the white it's not actually important to keep the cue on the same plane, so there. That said, you need to be sure that you're on the same plane until just a bit after striking the white, otherwise a small change in timing or bridge length, etc could mean you drop the elbow slightly too soon, prior to striking the white and this will negatively affect your screw and cue ball control.

I believe this idea is supported by Del. At (Part 4, 5:20) he says "look at the natural slope" then "we're going to follow that slope, it gets to there and then we want to come down". His "it gets to there" is said when the cue tip strikes the white, after that the elbow drops and you "drive" through the ball.

[nrage]

I'm re-watching all of Cazmac's Del videos now and I've just got to (Part 2, 5:45) where Del fully explains what he calls "pecking". I don't believe that this is the same as what Terry means when he says for the "hand to hit the chest". In Del's case the hand is coming up into the chest. In Terry case, as I understand it, the hand hits the chest at the end of what Del would call the "drive". As in, it happens well after the cue tip goes through the ball vs Del's pecker who only gets a couple of cm through the ball.

.. he also explains the cue following the plane, then going parallel to the table, see (Part 2, 5:18). I haven't been recommending the latter, going parallel to the table. But I have been advocating the former, following the plane until the cue tip strikes the white.

[Terry Davidson]

I always try and be very careful on what coaching advice I get here and try and give the clearest explanation I can, since if you don't then out of the 100 or so who read it there are bound to be some who get it wrong.

I advocate (the same as nrage) that the cue be on 'as level a plane as possible' or about 1 chalk height above the cushion with a comfortable hand-on-the-table shot. I also advocate dropping the elbow on the delivery (but please, not on all shots just those at medium pace and above) but exactly the same as Del I advocate finishing all strokes by having the grip hand finish at and against the chest. When dropping the elbow on a more powerful shot the grip hand will come into the chest slightly farther in than if you didn't drop the elbow and also the butt of the cue (or the grip hand if you prefer) will drop AS IT HAS TO WHEN THE ELBOW DROPS (unless somehow you can drop the elbow without dropping the grip hand).

This is a prime example of someone taking a coach's comment out of context and then quoting it as the correct technique. If you ask Del he will say the grip hand should finish against the chest, the grip should not tighten until well after the cueball has been struck, he advocates dropping the elbow on all shots above medium pace.

For those little low power shots around the black (where Del is trying to get Cazmac to just get the cueball to the top cushion) the backswing is, of course, very short and the follow-through is also a little shorter BUT THE HAND STILL HITS THE CHEST however the butt of the cue shouldn't drop as the elbow is not dropping.

This is directly from the Terry Griffiths coaching method, whereas Nic Barrow advocates (if a student can control it) to use a longer backswing all the time with the elbow dropping at the end of this backswing and also at the end of the delivery when the butt of the cue drops too. The difference is with Nic's method the student has to learn to contol and modify the acceleration of the cue since the backswing is always the same length. With Terry Griffiths method the student modifies the length of the backswing, same as Del teaches.

Now we get the argument of 'which is best'? All I can say is the majority of the best players in the world use the long backswing for most of their shots with the exception of the very low power shots where they really have to dampen down the cue's acceleration which would be tougher to do using a long backswing on a very low power shot.

Terry

[CoachGavin]

Think Del is just trying to avoid players 'pecking' which is when they pull the cue back below the cue plane rather than on it. When they deliver the cue they then lift the butt up to return the cue to its address position. This creates the 'down to up' action that is not wanted as the tip only just gets through the white.
To stop this Del says you should follow the slope back and then deliver the cue down the slope. The cue will finish parallel once you have dropped the elbow on the delivery. However he varies with other coaches in that he says that the elbow should remain up on the backswing and this is made easier by opening the back of the hand on the backswing.

[CoachGavin]

Think Del is just trying to avoid players 'pecking' which is when they pull the cue back below the cue plane rather than on it. When they deliver the cue they then lift the butt up to return the cue to its address position. This creates the 'down to up' action that is not wanted as the tip only just gets through the white.
To stop this Del says you should follow the slope back and then deliver the cue down the slope. The cue will finish parallel once you have dropped the elbow on the delivery. However he varies with other coaches in that he says that the elbow should remain up on the backswing and this is made easier by opening the back of the hand on the backswing.

[snookergr]

Check out Del Hill's explanation (0.41 min) where he explains to Cazmac that this is another 'dummy' and it's this and the backswing length that generates the power.

...........).

to limecc:
this is to clarify what a dummy is :-) (hopefully not me LOL)
correct me if I am wrong a 'dummy' is something that you park your mind to when performing your approach to the shot an/or striking
for example "chin on cue" dummy i.e. you concentrate on that when cueing and delivering - works fine for me by the way
so limecc do you mean that Del proposed a 'open your hand' sort of dummy ?
thanks

[limecc]

Hi Dimitris,

I think that's what Del was saying yes. Cazmac's asked if a player is aware of the hand opening and didn't he say there's only about 6 dummies in the game and Cazmac had most of them built in already? For me the problem is awareness of what is going wrong! (which is where the dummy comes in I suppose)

Del said the most important thing was consistency. He didn't mind what part of the foot goes on the line but it always had to be the same part. He wasn't bothered how many wiggles or if there was a back pause, but there had to be a front pause.

In your own (excellent btw;-) cue action are you conscious of the hand opening? I'm trying to incorporate it consistently into my own style which is proving a difficult thing for an old dog like me.