Keeping cue grains straight

[wayync]

So if you are using an ash cue, was wondering how important it is to keep the grain arrows straight facing up during your address position, back-swing and delivery?

The reason I ask this is because i find that during my backswing the grains on my cue tend to twist one way and during delivery it goes back to normal....i mean is that ok?

I was watching a lot of pros who use ash cues and can see that their grains are kept super straight during their action, especially ronnie and mark williams. Do people who can't keep their grains straight resort to using maple cues like Stephen Maguire? because I know he twists his wrist inside on delivery.

[DeanH]

I would say that the "twist" could be because as you pull back for the backswing your wrist is slightly rotating, probably "into" your body and as you deliver the shot stroke it returns back to "normal".
Probably you hold your cue with a "straight" wrist, that is to say your forearm and back off the hand are aligned where you should have a slight kink at the wrist.
Terry Davidson, world coach on this forum, says to check this lay down your cue on the table and then pick it up as you would a hammer, you will naturally have a slight kink at the wrist, so the knuckles are further away from the body than the wrist. What this does is to allow your cue hand to pull back and then deliver the cue without any rotation at the wrist.
I had the same problem some time ago then saw a posting from Terry and gave it a try and after the intial "strange" feeling, it now feels right and I do not have have the twist on the delivery, which has stopped a lot of unintentional "across" cue ball shots.
Hope this helps

Edit: just also wanted to say that you should not be focussing on the grain as you drawback and deliver but on the cue ball and the point of contact on that object ball as you do so. But I assume as you have realised you have been doing something unusual, you have been checking out you cue action for this exercise only
Edit: regardless of wood (I play with an old maple and a new ash), your delivery should be unwavering, consistency is the key: if you are consistent with your twist then no problem (Macquire?) or else

[eaoin11]

I was watching a lot of pros who use ash cues and can see that their grains are kept super straight during their action, especially ronnie and mark williams. Do people who can't keep their grains straight resort to using maple cues like Stephen Maguire? because I know he twists his wrist inside on delivery.

No, pro's with that problem would just fix their technique, not switch to maple. The different hit of maple and ash is the only important factor when choosing which to use. At the time of striking the white ball, your eyes should be locked on the object ball so you really shouldn't be concious of what the grain is doing.

[wayync]

I would say that the "twist" could be because as you pull back for the backswing your wrist is slightly rotating, probably "into" your body and as you deliver the shot stroke it returns back to "normal".
Probably you hold your cue with a "straight" wrist, that is to say your forearm and back off the hand are aligned where you should have a slight kink at the wrist.
Terry Davidson, world coach on this forum, says to check this lay down your cue on the table and then pick it up as you would a hammer, you will naturally have a slight kink at the wrist, so the knuckles are further away from the body than the wrist. What this does is to allow your cue hand to pull back and then deliver the cue without any rotation at the wrist.
I had the same problem some time ago then saw a posting from Terry and gave it a try and after the intial "strange" feeling, it now feels right and I do not have have the twist on the delivery, which has stopped a lot of unintentional "across" cue ball shots.
Hope this helps

Edit: just also wanted to say that you should not be focussing on the grain as you drawback and deliver but on the cue ball and the point of contact on that object ball as you do so. But I assume as you have realised you have been doing something unusual, you have been checking out you cue action for this exercise only

Yes I only check during practice. I do use the sligt wrist cock but when I draw back and open up my hand the cue twists as my hand opens up. I'm left handed so the grains twist right, and as I deliver when I close my hand they twist back to straight. This is a huge problem for me which I find very hard to remedy.

[DeanH]

"check during practice" - ok
Try to practice with a focus on the "wrist cock" and when you open the hand on drawback you probably have too tight a grip so the effort of opening the fingers moves the wrist, as the third finger to little finger are being used on the butt grip too much.
The butt should only be "held" by the forefinger and (partly) the thumb, the other fingers are for balance and ensuring straightness only.
As well as focussing on the wrist cock, try loosing your grip (imagine holding a baby-bird - that is the strength you want to apply [quote from Nic Barrows], and see how your deliver the cue.
Also, from your description, maybe your stance is too much "into" the cue, instead of alongside, so that your grip hand automatically twists outwards away from the body so not to hit the body on the back stroke, and then twists back as you deliver the cue.

[wayync]

"check during practice" - ok
Try to practice with a focus on the "wrist cock" and when you open the hand on drawback you probably have too tight a grip so the effort of opening the fingers moves the wrist, as the third finger to little finger are being used on the butt grip too much.
The butt should only be "held" by the forefinger and (partly) the thumb, the other fingers are for balance and ensuring straightness only.
As well as focussing on the wrist cock, try loosing your grip (imagine holding a baby-bird - that is the strength you want to apply [quote from Nic Barrows], and see how your deliver the cue.
Also, from your description, maybe your stance is too much "into" the cue, instead of alongside, so that your grip hand automatically twists outwards away from the body so not to hit the body on the back stroke, and then twists back as you deliver the cue.

Wow, very good advice. I'm on the practice table and I see a difference already, especially the tip about holding the cue.

[DeanH]

In Nic Barrow's Snooker Gym video, he shows how lightly you need to hold the cue by using only the tips of the forefinger and thumb and nothing else, even they are very light, and he still gets a good screw off the white with no effort
Your countryman, Terry Davidson, as well as other coaches, always maintain that a light cue grip is the main component to a good cue delivery and hence a good shot.
I see that a light but controlled grip gives the above benefits but I also go further to say that a light, controlled grip also leads to comfort and less fatigue in the hand in the long run, whether a match or a long practise session; and that comfort in the all aspects of your game (grip, stance, strategy, mental deportment, etc.) is paramount to gaining better results as well as enjoyment in the game

[wayync]

In Nic Barrow's Snooker Gym video, he shows how lightly you need to hold the cue by using only the tips of the forefinger and thumb and nothing else, even they are very light, and he still gets a good screw off the white with no effort
Your countryman, Terry Davidson, as well as other coaches, always maintain that a light cue grip is the main component to a good cue delivery and hence a good shot.
I see that a light but controlled grip gives the above benefits but I also go further to say that a light, controlled grip also leads to comfort and less fatigue in the hand in the long run, whether a match or a long practise session; and that comfort in the all aspects of your game (grip, stance, strategy, mental deportment, etc.) is paramount to gaining better results as well as enjoyment in the game

but ok now my question is...is keeping the grains straight absolutely key? because check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x9Ul...eature=related
@ 3:00 you can clearly see that Luca twists his cue on delivery but it doesn't seem to affect his game that much.

I mean, if you are comfortable and it feels natural and you can deliver the cue straight, does it really matter if there are twists? I also definitely know that maguire, bingham and a few others twist on delivery.

[DeanH]

I would say that IF you can deliver the cue on a consistent straight basis, then the twist does not really matter, but I would say that most players are NOT consistent with delivering the cue straight every time without imparting unintentional spin
As with most aspects of snooker, there is no real definitive Yes/No answer, but what is best and what works for you as the player.
Have you had any professional coaching?
A one2one session is ideal to work out what does and what does not work for you and the coach should/will notice things to move your game onwards.
Are you anywhere near where Terry Davidson lives? If not, he may know of a coach close to you.
Cheers

[Terry Davidson]

wayne:

DeanH has it absolutely correct. AND, I really dislike comparisons to good players where they have a glitch in their cue action so now I will go on another rant.

First of all consider this...if the grain on your cue is twisting then the ONLY WAY you can do this is to twist the wrist. In turn twisting the wrist even a fraction will move the butt of your cue off-line. The way to correct this is PRACTICE with a SUPER-LOOSE grip and a wrist cock and then gradually make the grip a bit tighter. The true test of how tight the grip should be (thanks to Steve Davis) is if you grip the cue normally and then grasp the shaft with the other hand and keep the grip hand still in space you should be able to EASILY move the butt of the cue in and out of the grip with very little friction.

Doing this will immediately get rid of the butt turning although in your case I would also recommend a slight wrist cock which should be maintained throughout the feathers, backswing and delivery.

Now let's get back to my rant and 16-years-old Luca Breca. First of all (and this is only my theory by the way) YOU CAN'T PLAY LIKE A 16-YEAR-OLD who has perfect coordination and who can control his wrist rotating since he has perfect timing and gets the cue correctly back to the exact address position on delivery.

But with this technique I believe Luca will suffer later in life as he gets into his 20's and his perfect 16-year-old timing starts to degrade a bit.

Another question...why have more moving parts in a technique which you have to coordinate and time? A great example of this is Maguire who does rotate the wrist on delivery and when he does this well AFTER he strikes the cueball he plays well BUT when his timing is a little off he plays absolute crap (if I was his coach I would take out that extra moving part he had and I believe he would be a much more consistent player.

OK, enough of the rant but a word of warning. Don't look at individual traits of the best player and try and copy them but rather look at what the good players do IN COMMON and copy that. Would you rather have a technique copied from 4 or 5 different good players or a technique which is developed solely for Wayne?

I think you need to come back to Alma so I can beat you over the head every time I see the grain of your cue twisting. Maybe a little negative reinforcement (in otherwords PAIN) will correct the problem. Just joking

Terry

[eaoin11]

wayne:

I think you need to come back to Alma so I can beat you over the head every time I see the grain of your cue twisting. Maybe a little negative reinforcement (in otherwords PAIN) will correct the problem. Just joking

Terry

Should have the 'like' button featured on facebook for posts like this : )

[cally]

Yes I only check during practice. I do use the sligt wrist cock but when I draw back and open up my hand the cue twists as my hand opens up. I'm left handed so the grains twist right, and as I deliver when I close my hand they twist back to straight. This is a huge problem for me which I find very hard to remedy.

Hi wayne, i know you've had plenty of advice on this already but i'd like to add, (also i only skipped through the thread quickly) i'm also a lefty and used to twist the cue on delivery, i only cock the wrist a lttle like you say you do, for me to sort the 'twist' i had to adjust where i was holding the cue in the hand to rectify it and to get the cue through without a 'twist'.

I think i used to hold the cue up into my hand too much and it caused me to 'twist'
for me to remedy this problem i had to drop the cue down slightly more into the fingers. iirc.


worked a treat...

[snookergr]

........ Maybe a little negative reinforcement (in otherwords PAIN) will correct the problem. .. Just joking Terry

ROFL !!!!

PS.
Seriously I also remember Allison Fisher she used to move the grains of the cue when cueing.
Ronnie on the other hand keeps it absolutely straight when cueing as he would wish.
I couldn't agree more with the above posts and I think one more moving part in the techinique will be too much to time properly :-D

[wayync]

Thanks for your advice Terry, greatly appreciated!

[cuebru]

Also a great aid and quick check for wrist cock is the thumb, if its pointing down your wrist will be cocked a bit, sure has helped me.