Missing the same shot the same way

[armstm]

I consistently miss certain shots the same way - e.g overcut 3/4 long red (cueball near green spot cueing to the black pocket) or generally overcutting blacks or overcutting diagonal pinks into the black pocket (from the yellow side to the green side).

so i was practising on sunday and i had left myself the following shot

cueball parallel to the black about a foot to the side on the yellow side of the table. i was trying to pot the pink - it was a slightly off-straight pot cutting it back into the middle. played this shot 3* in row and overcut each one.

i then tried to just hit the pink straight (not pot it, just a straight shot) and hey presto i potted it!

thus i started to form my view on these kind of repetitive missing the same way, is that you are seeing the ANGLE correctly but you're not starting off straight.

ie if you adjusted to look at hitting the ojbect ball straight (not trying to pot it - just hit it dead straight) and then adjusted for the angle - you'd pot it.

i check i am straight on the shot by pointing my cue at cueball and object ball - and yes sometimes my feet started off on the wrong line.

now for shots i know it repetitively miss the same way - i first of all make sure to line myself up as if i was going to hit the ball in a straight line, i then adjust for the angle.

any thoughts on this process?

[nrage]

I think this is a useful technique to "reset" yourself, if you're having trouble. I think that when you're overcutting it is because you are assuming the angle vs actually looking at it. That is why you repeatedly do it, because you use the same assumption again and again. This is because, at some time in the past that angle did work, and you did pot it, but likely due to a cueing fault or unintentional side etc, but the brain has learnt it, and you need to un-learn it and start teaching it again. Also, lining it up straight and attempting to play it straight will test if the problem is due to a cueing fault, and not the aim after all.

[armstm]

at the moment, there is a conscious and a subconscious element. the conscious is the making sure i am going to be right behind the shot as if i'm going to hit it straight. this is conscious as i'm making little adjustments and then if i'm really not sure getting the cue out and pointing at the object ball and cue ball and seeing if my feet are correctly on this line.

the subconscious is then turning the angle required to pot the ball.

one thing i wanted to ask is that on long pots people use the "dotted line" approach from object ball to pocket. isn't this quite a conscious approach rather than the seemingly preferred approach of "let your subconscious find the angle, its better than the conscious brain".

[bonoman1970]

just see the angle and pot the ball or give up!

[armstm]

easy for you to say! how about if i consistently miss the shot but enjoy playing?

[bonoman1970]

easy for you to say! how about if i consistently miss the shot but enjoy playing?

there are far more important things 2 worry about,or maybe not .....we could all die tomorrow!
only pulling yr leg mate pm me and I can try ti help you probs 2morrow

[armstm]

am not worried big man! its all good.

i realise i am quite mechanical about snooker - possibly overly so. having said that i have played at a fairly tragic level by getting down to the pot and having a go. its only recently when i've made an effort to analyse flaws etc that i've made progress.

[thelongbomber]

A little trick to help you reset your vision about potting angles:

"Place another ball directly behind the object ball and inline with the pocket (aka ghost ball). Now go back to your cue ball and get down into the cueing position. Stare at this new ghost ball and see the angle it creates on the object ball. Pay close attention to what this angle is and see if its thicker/thinner than what you originally thought it was (it's probably thicker than you thought). Now stand up, and remove this ghost ball. Go back to the cue ball and once again get down into cueing position. Try potting but not with pace or any force. Centre ball, and with a light to medium stroke. If you are still overcutting do the exercise again."

What's actually happening: Back cuts are decieving because of depth perception - the short length of the table looks shorter than it actually is and so you overcut thinking the pocket is only a foot away when it's actually 3 feet away from the centre of the table. When you stand, you can see the pocket is 3 feet away but when you get down behind a cue ball, the pocket looks closer because most people with decent vision can focus clearly to that distance. The pocket becomes a visual distraction in that your depth perception fools you into thinking it's close by.

Another technique you can try to improve potting is one I discovered some months back. See this thread: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...348#post525348

[Wayne G]

longbomber,

I'm confused.

You say that the contact point the object ball makes on the cloth is your guide for aiming and it's the only point on the entire table you look at while approaching and getting down for the shot.

So, you're looking at that point, but where did your aiming come into it? I just don't understand. Maybe it's too simple(or I am).

Maybe you can explain it a different way or something.

Thanks, Wayne G

[thelongbomber]

longbomber,

I'm confused.

You say that the contact point the object ball makes on the cloth is your guide for aiming and it's the only point on the entire table you look at while approaching and getting down for the shot.

So, you're looking at that point, but where did your aiming come into it? I just don't understand. Maybe it's too simple(or I am).

Maybe you can explain it a different way or something.

Thanks, Wayne G

I assume you are talking about the shadow technique I refer to in the other forum thread? So basically yes, I look at a shadow beneath the object ball as my reference point. For blind cuts - and in my case side pocket shots - I find it works very well. It gives you a starting reference for where to think about the potting angle. As you approach and line up for the shot, you can use this point to start. Once you become familiar with the potting angle on shots where this trick works, you won't use the shadow as much anymore. Regarding the overcutting issue that the original poster talks about, using a shadow or some other aiming guide (the rail behind the object ball, some point on the wall inside the club) is a way to overcome sighting/vision issues.

[armstm]

i think the ghostball technique is useful, have used it for shots down the rail and it does work.

if you do repetitively miss it the same way i'd encourage you to look at your starting point. its possible your feet are slightly in the wrong place , that you are starting off slightly to the left or to the right (in my case, its slightly to the right i think) and that you are seeing the angle correctly but from a line parallel and slightly to the right of straight. hence overcut in the examples at the start.

in this case, i don't think its the cue action (cued straight) or the angle selected but the fact that the cue is travelling at a line parallel but slightly to the right of where it should be.

[armstm]

I assume you are talking about the shadow technique I refer to in the other forum thread? So basically yes, I look at a shadow beneath the object ball as my reference point. For blind cuts - and in my case side pocket shots - I find it works very well. It gives you a starting reference for where to think about the potting angle. As you approach and line up for the shot, you can use this point to start. Once you become familiar with the potting angle on shots where this trick works, you won't use the shadow as much anymore. Regarding the overcutting issue that the original poster talks about, using a shadow or some other aiming guide (the rail behind the object ball, some point on the wall inside the club) is a way to overcome sighting/vision issues.

hi there i've started using your shadow method and i am pleased to say it really does work. i would like to ask a couple of questions...

1) does it work for really fine cuts? i have tried it and i think it results in undercutting (it makes sense this actually since the shadow comes is not the same area as the edge of the ball)

2) how long does do you need to do this before the brain memories the right angle?

many thanks for this helpful tip - it has helped me pot a lot of balls i usually miss.