Steve Davis and a sport scientist on ball spin on snooker!

[02aleric]

found a 2 part video on youtube that is worth watching especially for beginners with steve davis and a sport scientist, no revelations but worth watching nonetheless!

here is part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1Hfn...eature=related

here is part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaGHH...eature=related

[PatBlock]

That was great, thanks for posting it 02aleric.

What a serious young man he appeared to be back then, (I wonder why he got the 'interesting' reputation?) until he wins the coin roll at the end, and his true nature bursts through the ice cool persona.

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[02aleric]

Here's another good video, it's part of a longer series but in this clip after about 3 minutes Steve 'proves' that side can not be transferred from one ball to another, Quite interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-zG55SW0I0

[PatBlock]

...after about 3 minutes Steve 'proves' that side can not be transferred from one ball to another...

And yet in your previous clip, the slow motion footage of the pack being split up seems to show that it can.

...Quite interesting

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[02aleric]

Ahh yes, but off that break off the reds are touching each other and locked together so there is an awful lot more friction! Steve is simply saying that when a ball is not on a cushion or touching other balls, side can not be transferred from the cueball to the object ball. Hard to disagree with him when he does that test with the striped balls

[PatBlock]

Ahh yes, but off that break off the reds are touching each other and locked together so there is an awful lot more friction!

You're absolutely right there, but I think it does imply that it's possible, IMO.

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[jim evans]

this point as been talked about lots if side is not transferable how if hitting a ball along the cushion say the black rail if hit with lefthand side the ball hugs the cushion if hit with righthand side it drfts away from cushion

[Inoffthered]

Other ppl will prob. disagree with this. But back in 1984/85, Steve Davis' looked so perfect. Then of course he lost the WC to Dennis Taylor, Stephen Hendry came along and started pasting him reg. ( Davis then felt the need something had to change to "keep up" ) and the rest is history.

[PatBlock]

this point as been talked about lots if side is not transferable how if hitting a ball along the cushion say the black rail if hit with lefthand side the ball hugs the cushion if hit with righthand side it drfts away from cushion

You're right, it's an old chestnut this, but it just seems logical to me that if two balls collide, and one of them is spinning, some of that spin is bound to be transferred as they make contact. It may usually only be a very small amount, but it's not possible for the spinning ball to be totally unaffected by colliding with the stationary one, and visa versa.

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[jim evans]

ide like to imagine or maybe see a ball from 1 end of table hit with lefthand side and a ball from other end hit with lefthand side and the same using righthand side,and then 1 with left and the other with right and see how balls react

[02aleric]

have you watched the video where steve uses the striped balls? clear from the video that when there are no other balls or cushions involved very very little or no side is transferred. When the object ball is locked against other balls or a cushion then the amount of friction generated will be massively increased, in this situation i think a certain amount of side can be transferred.

this point as been talked about lots if side is not transferable how if hitting a ball along the cushion say the black rail if hit with lefthand side the ball hugs the cushion if hit with righthand side it drfts away from cushion

I think this is a slight myth too, in fact there is another video somewhere where steve talks about this too. people often play shots down a rail/cushion with running side as they think the side will be transferred onto the object ball and make it 'hug the cushion'. What actually happens is that with a small amount of running side, if the cueball hits the cushion just before the object ball, the running side widens the angle of deflection off the cushion, making the cueball hit the object ball fuller in the face than it would have done with no running side. Just my thoughts, i always thought it was the other way until i saw the Steve Davis videos a few years back.

[DandyA]

I don't think spin transfer is the important point peeps ... what I want to know is did we really dress and speak like that in 1984? If so, no wonder the youngsters of today think we're old fuddie-duddies and who can blame them

[vmax4steve]

I think this is a slight myth too, in fact there is another video somewhere where steve talks about this too. people often play shots down a rail/cushion with running side as they think the side will be transferred onto the object ball and make it 'hug the cushion'. What actually happens is that with a small amount of running side, if the cueball hits the cushion just before the object ball, the running side widens the angle of deflection off the cushion, making the cueball hit the object ball fuller in the face than it would have done with no running side. Just my thoughts, i always thought it was the other way until i saw the Steve Davis videos a few years back.

That's exactly what happens. I remember watching this when it was first broadcast, nothing magic just perfect explanations of the results of spin and transfer of kinetic energy from one ball to another with no prior agenda like trying to sell you something like a low deflection cue for 500 bucks. Take note people, this is how it is or rather was before superfine cloths started being used where the effects are now less in regards to side spin with and against the nap.
Also in regards to the explanation of chalk or another foreign particle on the ball causing kicks, this experiment was done with super crystalate balls, the modern phenolic resin balls kick even when they are perfectly clean so maybe another experiment needs to be done with them. My theory about them is that phenolic resin is not as uniformly dense as super crystalate and so when certain soft spots on the balls make contact with another ball then there are kicks. Remember, these phenolic resin balls were introduced to the game only because Aramith bought out the Super Crystalate company and immediately stopped production of super crystalate balls in favour of their own phenolic resin balls so the snooker authorities had no choice but to endorse them with a change to the rules of the game which previously stated that only super crystalate balls could be used for matches at inter league, county level and above.
Phenolic resin balls are not superior to super crystalate, they are inferior in fact but are cheaper to produce and so the profit margins are higher, RANT OVER.

[02aleric]

So good to hear this! I get so frustrated down the club of hearing some of the blokes go on about putting the wrong side on the ball thus the wrong side being transferred etc. The subject of kicks is so interesting. Hard to believe that even with all the scientific and technological advancements of recent years that it still hasn't been fully explained. I think it's been proven to a degree that chalk can definitely cause kicks, although it's definitely not the sole cause. The point of different densities is interesting. i've always wondered how in 8ball english pool, with the smaller white ball the contact is so uniform. Surely being smaller the weight and density of the cue ball must be different to all of the other balls? if so why doesn't this produce more kicks? I may be totally wrong here

[nrage]

I think this is a slight myth too, in fact there is another video somewhere where steve talks about this too. people often play shots down a rail/cushion with running side as they think the side will be transferred onto the object ball and make it 'hug the cushion'. What actually happens is that with a small amount of running side, if the cueball hits the cushion just before the object ball, the running side widens the angle of deflection off the cushion, making the cueball hit the object ball fuller in the face than it would have done with no running side. Just my thoughts, i always thought it was the other way until i saw the Steve Davis videos a few years back.

The effect of side is very small, perhaps none at all, in the example you're describing. The effect of side is greatest when running directly into the rail (perpendicular/90 degrees/etc) and lessens to nothing (almost nothing) the shallower the angle into the rail.

I particularly like these 2 videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FargoBil...18/2J0I6IgLlo8
http://www.youtube.com/user/FargoBil.../5/Oii0UhnYjCc

The 2nd video focuses first of all on side spin and the effect it has off cushions at various angles.