Which ball should i watch first when i hving drill ?

[masterqq]

1/ white ball to confirm the position i stand behind
2/ object ball to pocket
3/ move back to object
4/ Then down to shot

OR
1/ Stand behind the object without seeing the white ball
2/ see the white ball to object ball
3/ object to pocket and move back to object ball
4/ Then down to shot

OR
1/ confirm the white ball position
2/ white ball the object ball
3/ object ball to pocket and move back to object ball
4/ Then down to shot

I'm getting confuzing about which one is correct.
Can anyone share the point of view about drill?

[jrc750]

Well that's all very confusing
I think what i do is stand behind the cueball visualising where it needs to hit the object ball in order to pot it, i also decide whilst standing up how i want to hit the cueball in order to get it to go where i need it for the following shot. Then i drop down on the line of aim, cue up to the cueball at the correct position for my desired spin etc, flick my eyes to the object ball, feather the cue, draw the cue back whilst i look back at the cueball, then revert my eyes to the object ball and fire

[nrage]

I start by finding the point of contact I need on the object ball, which sometimes means moving around behind the object ball and looking directly into the pocket, or directly along the path I want it to follow. Once I have this point of contact, or "back of ball" (BOB) spot in mind. I stand behind the white, and imagine the path it needs to take to strike the BOB. I move so that my nose is directly above/in line with this path and with my eyes looking at the object ball, and my concentration on putting the cue down on the path I walk into the shot. From there my eyes move from object to white and back while feathering until I pause with the tip close to the white for a final check, then eyes to the object ball for the back swing and delivery. I don't have an appreciable back pause (despite all my efforts), but if I did I would have my eyes on the object ball from that point at least, until striking the white.

[Terry Davidson]

The 'ideal' (and what I teach new students) is this:

1. When standing behind the shot the player looks for the path FROM THE POCKET to the object ball, then the path from cueball to the point on the object ball he wants to hit (called BOB or Back Of Ball).
2. He then locks his eyes on BOB and then places his right foot (if right-handed) on the line of aim he has selected, keeping his head (nose) on that line of aim and the eyes locked on BOB.
3. With his eyes still locked on BOB he places his LEFT foot (might entail leaning over to keep the head on the line of aim) or else bends the left leg and twists the hips to the left (while still standing up) until his head comes back onto the line of aim. The eyes are locked on BOB throughout this process.
4. With eyes still on BOB (no cheating, DO NOT LOOK at the cueball) the player drops his bridge hand to the table and assumes the address position, with the cue still and within 1/4" of the cueball. Checks that everything is what he wanted.
5. Commence the feathering with the eyes switching back and forth between OB and CB. Only 2-3 feathers MAX.
6. Do a 'front pause' with cue in the address position and lock eyes on the spot on the cueball you intend to hit.
7. Start your SLOW backswing and somewhere near or during the rear pause or even slightly after the rear pause when the delivery starts shift the eyes back to the OB and KEEP THEM THERE until delivery is complete.
8. Two choices now, the eyes can either follow the OB to the pocket or cushion without moving the head and with the player staying down and still (Nic Barrow school) or else the eyes can remain on where the object ball WAS again without any movement at all (Steve Davis school). The Steve Davis being the one that will keep most players the most still at the end of the shot with the cue extended, which is VERY important.

Terry

[masterqq]

Thank you Terry , nrage and jrc750
may i conclude above points in this way:
1/ Standing behind the cue ball and object ball " which mean i don't have to look at the cue ball clearly and just stand behind it"
2/ After standing behind, i need to sure the point to hit on object ball so i need looking at the pocket and draw a line to object ball.
3/ After finding the hitting area on object ball, i look at the cue ball to object ball in order to find the right path for cue ball travel to hitting area.
4/ Last, right foot on the path and keep sight on BOB until finishing the whole get down process
Am i get the right points ?

Thank you for kindness sharing. I learnt so much

[masterqq]

Thank you Terry , nrage and jrc750
may i conclude above points in this way:
1/ Standing behind the cue ball and object ball " which mean i don't have to look at the cue ball clearly and just stand behind it"
2/ After standing behind, i need to sure the point to hit on object ball so i need looking at the pocket and draw a line to object ball.
3/ After finding the hitting area on object ball, i look at the cue ball to object ball in order to find the right path for cue ball travel to hitting area.
4/ Last, right foot on the path and keep sight on BOB until finishing the whole get down process
Am i get the right points ?

Thank you for kindness sharing. I learnt so much

[stephenm2682]

terry, in reply to point 4) when getting down on the shot, how can one be certain that the cue is 1/4" away and in the middle of the white if we can't look at the white, i found that my tip was more than that away and when i look at the white i'm pushing the cue forward to make up this difference.

my set up would consist of, looking the point on the object ball i want to hit, then the cueball to find correct line, putting foot on the line, then i look at the cueball to make sure the cue is where i want it to be. would this be my downfall?

[stephenm2682]

terry, in reply to point 4) when getting down on the shot, how can one be certain that the cue is 1/4" away and in the middle of the white if we can't look at the white, i found that my tip was more than that away and when i look at the white i'm pushing the cue forward to make up this difference.

my set up would consist of, looking the point on the object ball i want to hit, then the cueball to find correct line, putting foot on the line, then i look at the cueball to make sure the cue is where i want it to be. would this be my downfall?

actually sometimes i've noticed on some pots that i'm not lined up correctly and have to get up and re-adjust.

[Terry Davidson]

stephenm:

As long as the tip of the cue is within 1" it's not vitally important but remember the primary objective of the delivery is to get the cue back to the EXACT address position and the further away you address the cueball means two things, 1. You will be hitting the cueball AFTER the address position so for that last bit of distance between the tip and the back of the cueball you must be cueing exactly level; and 2. The distance between the tip and back of the cueball comes right off the amount of follow-through you will have (not too much of a problem if you happen to drop the elbow at the end of the delivery and transfer the grip to the back 2-3 fingers at the end of the delivery).

This distance will come with experience and practice and ideally should be no more that 1/2" and less than that if possible. Remember the grip forearm should be exactly vertical at the address position and directly over the right foot, somewhere between the laces (arch) and the toes.

If you would like an exercise to teach you distance to the cueball at address try this (from Nic Barrow). Brown ball on spot with cueball 1ft behind it and directly into the green pocket (yellow if left-handed). Get down on the shot normally and assume the address position. Now do 3 feathers and at the end of the feathers have the tip just barely touch the cueball (hopefully without moving it). After 3 touches of the cueball backswing normally and complete the pot. Try this a few times and eventually you will teach your brain exactly where the cueball is when you address it.

This sounds like an easy exercise but believe it's very difficult to touch that cueball without moving it, so feather very slowly and then at the forward end of the each feather gently push the cue forward. Keep the grip nice and loose.

But for the long haul don't worry how close you are to the cueball with the tip as long as it's not 2" or something like that. Also note John Higgins doesn't cue right up to the cueball and has about a 1" gap there but that hasn't harmed him at all.

Terry

[gulliver]

The 'ideal' (and what I teach new students) is this:

1. When standing behind the shot the player looks for the path FROM THE POCKET to the object ball, then the path from cueball to the point on the object ball he wants to hit (called BOB or Back Of Ball).

Terry

]

Terry:

Thanks for detailed step-by-step explanation -- very helpful. Can you clarify why, in Step 1 above, it is important (assuming it is since you took time to put it in upper case) to look at the path FROM THE POCKET to the object ball, and not the other way around? I realized by reading this that I do almost everything you recommend pretty much instinctively except for that one. I normally visualize the path from the PB to the pocket, but doing it from the pocket to the OB is very counterintuitive to me. Why does it matter?

Thanks!

[gulliver]

The 'ideal' (and what I teach new students) is this:

1. When standing behind the shot the player looks for the path FROM THE POCKET to the object ball, then the path from cueball to the point on the object ball he wants to hit (called BOB or Back Of Ball).

Terry

]

Terry:

Thanks for detailed step-by-step explanation -- very helpful. Can you clarify why, in Step 1 above, it is important (assuming it is since you took time to put it in upper case) to look at the path FROM THE POCKET to the object ball, and not the other way around? I realized by reading this that I do almost everything you recommend pretty much instinctively except for that one. I normally visualize the path from the PB to the pocket, but doing it from the pocket to the OB is very counterintuitive to me. Why does it matter?

Thanks!

[Terry Davidson]

I don't think it really matters much. I teach the 'from the pocket' to new students since just prior to this stage I also teach them they have to aim to the part of the pocket with the most room for error on either side, which is normally the centre of the slate fall and not the centre of the pocket and they seem to be able to visualize this better by going (for example) from the inside of the far jaw to the back of the object ball.

For myself, I think I do it in both directions and I don't seem to do it all on the short and easy shots although I probably do.

Terry

[stephenm2682]

thanks terry for the explanation again, but my comment wasn't about my gap from cue to cueball, as i do have about a 1/4", but when i read your step 4 about lining up the pot i can't get down onto the shot without looking at the white to make sure the cue is where i want, otherwise as i stated earlier, if i keep eyes fixed on object ball and get down on the shot, i'm not addressing the white where i want.

actually having read your previous comments, do you mean keep eyes fixed on object ball until the bridge hand is on the table, then we can look at the white as we put the cue onto the line of aim?


is looking at the object ball last a necessity? or if you've lined up correctly does it really matter?

[Terry Davidson]

stephenm:

As long as you drop your head straight down so everything is still on the chosen line of aim then it shouldn't be a problem because once a player is in the initial address position when he starts feathering the eyes are moving back and forth between the object ball and cueball and with some players along the line of the cue from the 'V' of the bridge and everything is checked there and at the front pause.

Yes, ideally the eyes should remain on the object ball until the bridge hand hits the table and then they can switch to the cueball and the cue should be stopped in the address position for 0.5-1sec (I call this the preliminary pause which is really quite short and is an initial check). The reason I teach this is a lot of players (including myself sometimes) are pulling the cue back as (or just before) the bridge hand hits the table and they have no opportunity to do that initial check which is quite important. Not so important in short and easy shots but it really helps on long pots.

Terry

[stephenm2682]

terry, do you have any drills to detect if a miss is caused by either, not picking the correct BOB contact, bad cueing eg applying side spin, or not looking at the object ball on striking the white?