Square stance and dominant right eye

[denja]

I have read a few coaching articles stating that the square on stance is more suitable if you are a right eye dominant player (Right Handed) maybe a member could enlighten me with some technical reason why this would be the case (Or not) do any members swap from one stance to another during a game Boxer to square and back e.c.t.

[Terry Davidson]

denja:

Not sure where you would have read that but I've never come across it. In my experience and in general for some reason I've found left-handed players to be better long potters than right handed players but either group normally use the square stance with maybe the bent leg foot just slightly ahead of the straight leg foot.

I also believe too many players are overly concerned regarding 'dominant' or 'preferred' eye. It's MUCH more important to have the head, shoulder, elbow and grip hand lined up or at least in an alignment where the player can deliver the cue consistently straight.

Think of Mark Williams with his grip arm elbow outside by somewhere around 4in and then John Higgins with his elbow hanging in about 1-2in however they both appear to be somewhere around centre of their chin and both of them are excellent players and recently both have been ranked #1 which goes to show just how good they are. I would say they both deliver the cue consistently straight with no problems.

Terry

[nrage]

I have read a few coaching articles stating that the square on stance is more suitable if you are a right eye dominant player (Right Handed) maybe a member could enlighten me with some technical reason why this would be the case (Or not) do any members swap from one stance to another during a game Boxer to square and back e.c.t.

I've been experimenting with this, after hearing it from somewhere also. I think Terry is correct, the important thing is always going to be delivering the cue in a straight line, but, playing with the stance and investigating the results was interesting, so I'll share what I found.

Suppose you were right handed and left eye dominant and wanted the cue to run to the left of the chin, or even under the left eye. I found a boxer stance much easier to achieve this with, and it resulted in less strain on my shoulder and my back when doing so. I believe it's because the boxer stance twists the body and thus the chest around more, allowing the cue to run along it in a much more central position, so closer to the left eye.

My current stance is a square one, and I've been using it for the last year or so and attempting to make it nice and consistent etc. But, I did find that moving my front foot forward and turning my back foot out, into a slightly side on square stance relieved a bit of tension I have been feeling in my shoulder, and also allowed me to get my elbow right over the line of aim. Previously it had been hanging 1-2 inches inside the line of aim, and I think causing some movement of the grip hand on the shot.

So, it's worth experimenting with the stance, but make sure you only change one thing at a time, and be consistent about it, sticking with something for long enough to really prove whether it's beneficial or not.

[denja]

Got info from P.J.Nolan Ireland National Coach article

[CoachGavin]

Its because if you stand in a boxer stance as a right hander your left eye is slightly nearer the shot. Therefore a square stance is recommended if you are right eye dominant as its easier to get your right eye over the cue. I was taught this should be done when I was on the WPBSA course.

[denja]

Its because if you stand in a boxer stance as a right hander your left eye is slightly nearer the shot. Therefore a square stance is recommended if you are right eye dominant as its easier to get your right eye over the cue. I was taught this should be done when I was on the WPBSA course.

Can you give me details of how you set up 1/ do you place your right foot dead in line with the shot toe pointing straight down line 2/ do you have your left foot pointing straight down line of shot or is it off at a slight angle, any other details I would be most grateful 3/ my left eye has got weaker over time and I am trying to change my stance THANKS !

[Noelcwb]

Its because if you stand in a boxer stance as a right hander your left eye is slightly nearer the shot. Therefore a square stance is recommended if you are right eye dominant as its easier to get your right eye over the cue. I was taught this should be done when I was on the WPBSA course.

I am right handed, left eye dominant. I am trying to play square on about 6 months but I just cant.... now I found more confort and more straight with the shot if I put my front foot ahed, about half foot and sometimes more. What do you think about it?

[Terry Davidson]

noel:

I am also right-handed and left eye is my sighting eye after surgery. In addition I'm a bit older and I find it's much easier for me to get good alignment by having my left foot slightly ahead of my right foot by about 4in (10cm) or so. I also point both feet slightly to the outside of the line of the shot to ease the tension on my knee joints.

I think the correct way to approach this for each player would be to try different things first with their eyes closed and shuffling the feet around until they find out what is the most comfortable for them, keeping in mind the style they have been using might seem the most natural because of habit but it might not be the most comfortable.

As long as you keep the right side of the body aligned with the line of aim of the cue and you are comfortable you should be good to go, but remember to keep it consistent and use the same stance and set-up on every shot where you can.

Terry

[Deepscrew]

Im left handed but my right eye is dominant. I also bat right handed (cricket) but bowl left handed. Tennis right handed, i write left handed.

Im weird..

[Noelcwb]

noel:

I am also right-handed and left eye is my sighting eye after surgery. In addition I'm a bit older and I find it's much easier for me to get good alignment by having my left foot slightly ahead of my right foot by about 4in (10cm) or so. I also point both feet slightly to the outside of the line of the shot to ease the tension on my knee joints.

I think the correct way to approach this for each player would be to try different things first with their eyes closed and shuffling the feet around until they find out what is the most comfortable for them, keeping in mind the style they have been using might seem the most natural because of habit but it might not be the most comfortable.

As long as you keep the right side of the body aligned with the line of aim of the cue and you are comfortable you should be good to go, but remember to keep it consistent and use the same stance and set-up on every shot where you can.

Terry

Terry, sometimes I do this while I am playing too... I get down and If I feel there is incorrect line of aim or some discomfort I keep changing my feet until I get confort and straight line. I think the others players think this is weird...but works.
Now the big question.... this is a almost square stance or boxer stance?? Sometimes my front foot is a foot ahead and sometimes is half foot.

[Terry Davidson]

I would say 1ft ahead would be very close to boxer and anything less wouldbe closer to square

Terry

[Noelcwb]

Could you guys name some pro players who play using the boxer stance? The almost square would be very usefull too.

[nrage]

It's hard to find good images or video, because in the newer coverage the table really fills the screen.

But, I found this old footage of Ken Doherty showing the square stance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZobdIxm03M

0:28 is the first example.
1:01 gives us an interesting view from above. Notice both feet are pointing right of the line of aim.

Then, there's this footage of Jimmy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z2MCiAsDac

His front foot is slightly ahead (perhaps 1/2 - 1 foot?) so, this might be 1/2 boxer stance perhaps?

And Steve Davis, with what I think we can call a Boxer stance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgnAIsPY8hA

02:38 shows a good example of it.

.. after saying I could not find recent coverage, I did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wyKP...eature=related
Ronnie vs Judd, check out 01:23, looks like a 1/2 boxer/sqaure? similar to Jimmy above. Back foot is pointing outside the line of aim, front foot looks to be on the line of aim. Note, grip hand directly over the back foot. Bridge arm, slightly bent. I think this is a pretty good example of textbook technique, tho perhaps not as square as is recommended these days?

And, the same match, Judd this time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK2Ikxzl-0A
Check out 06:29. This stance looks very similar to Ronnies but I think it is squarer, tho it could just be the angle. As with Ronnies, the back foot is pointing outside the line of aim, front foot looks to be on the line of aim. Grip hand over back foot. Bridge arm slightly bent, perhaps straighter than Ronnies, at least on this shot.

Ooh, back to Ronnie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK2Ikxzl-0A
This time, look at 08:53. Ronnie sporting a completely square stance, and a very straight bridge arm. Which makes sense, to get the same head position relative to the tip of the cue, you need a longer bridge arm with a squarer stance, because it comes in from wider out - if that makes sense.

From that shot, he goes on to play one in the more boxer like stance shown earlier, and then back to an almost completely square stance. So, perhaps the exact position of the feet isn't all that important, tho in all cases the grip hand is over the back foot, which is pointing outside the line of aim (in Ronnies case), also the front foot is along the line of aim, or very nearly, so certain things remain consistent, if not the exact front foot position.

[Noelcwb]

It's hard to find good images or video, because in the newer coverage the table really fills the screen.

But, I found this old footage of Ken Doherty showing the square stance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZobdIxm03M

0:28 is the first example.
1:01 gives us an interesting view from above. Notice both feet are pointing right of the line of aim.

Then, there's this footage of Jimmy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z2MCiAsDac

His front foot is slightly ahead (perhaps 1/2 - 1 foot?) so, this might be 1/2 boxer stance perhaps?

And Steve Davis, with what I think we can call a Boxer stance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgnAIsPY8hA

02:38 shows a good example of it.

.. after saying I could not find recent coverage, I did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wyKP...eature=related
Ronnie vs Judd, check out 01:23, looks like a 1/2 boxer/sqaure? similar to Jimmy above. Back foot is pointing outside the line of aim, front foot looks to be on the line of aim. Note, grip hand directly over the back foot. Bridge arm, slightly bent. I think this is a pretty good example of textbook technique, tho perhaps not as square as is recommended these days?

And, the same match, Judd this time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK2Ikxzl-0A
Check out 06:29. This stance looks very similar to Ronnies but I think it is squarer, tho it could just be the angle. As with Ronnies, the back foot is pointing outside the line of aim, front foot looks to be on the line of aim. Grip hand over back foot. Bridge arm slightly bent, perhaps straighter than Ronnies, at least on this shot.

Ooh, back to Ronnie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK2Ikxzl-0A
This time, look at 08:53. Ronnie sporting a completely square stance, and a very straight bridge arm. Which makes sense, to get the same head position relative to the tip of the cue, you need a longer bridge arm with a squarer stance, because it comes in from wider out - if that makes sense.

From that shot, he goes on to play one in the more boxer like stance shown earlier, and then back to an almost completely square stance. So, perhaps the exact position of the feet isn't all that important, tho in all cases the grip hand is over the back foot, which is pointing outside the line of aim (in Ronnies case), also the front foot is along the line of aim, or very nearly, so certain things remain consistent, if not the exact front foot position.

Well, this video of steve is the greatest...I finally found a video from a pro who used to play with a boxer stance. This is exacly the same stance I do when I am in the zone... if worked for Steve, shall I continue to use it. Maybe for taller players this is better? Staying with the feet a litle ahead then normal?

Ronnie stance looks exacly the same in these videos. I think this isnt square... maybe a almost square stance or even a boxer??

At trumps is a litle harder to say... I think the camera angle is influencing.

In the last video from Ronnie I think is the same... camera angle.


This is my contribution... loook at 1:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSK4w_9S_x0

Neil Robertson looks like almost square or even a boxer?? For me this isnt a complete square on...

[nrage]

This is my contribution... loook at 1:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSK4w_9S_x0

Neil Robertson looks like almost square or even a boxer?? For me this isnt a complete square on...

Yeah, it seems that most of the stances shown were square, but with the front foot some small distance in front of truly square. Except for the shot of Steve, and Del's coaching video where they were truly square. So, from that I would say truly square or slightly ahead is going to work for most people. So, if you can manange truly square and it works for you, then stick with it.