cue action n stun shot

[calvinlim]

hi there! i have been playing for 5 years and i still can't achieve 50 points n above n u think its my cue action wasn't smooth enough due to back pause.. when i always wanted to stun d ball end up over placing... anyone please help me to improve my game or is there any video from YouTube to coach me in detailed explanation?
thank you.

[nrage]

I would not immediately assume it was a problem with your cue action or technique. Instead I would look for practice routines for stun shots and learn to control them better. There was a recent forum post here where people listed various practice routines, search for that.

Here are some important facts about the physics of stun, if you understand these you will be able to explain what you see on the table, and will then know what to change to get what you want.

When you strike the white it will initially slide (aka stun). The friction of the cloth erodes the sliding force until it exceeds it, at which point the white very quickly develops natural forward roll (where the rolling/forward rotation is relative to the speed of the white). So, a stun shot is a shot where the white is sliding/stunned when it strikes the object ball. If it develops any roll before striking the white then it will not be fully stunned. There is a very small window where it has some but not complete natural roll, and at this point you get partial stun.

When the white strikes the object ball it will always initially head off at 90 degrees to the path the object ball will take. If it has forward roll it will very quickly arc forward of this, the amount depends on the speed of the white (or rather, how much forward rotation it has which is directly proportional to the speed). If it was stunned it will stay on the 90 degree line. If it has screw (backward rotation) it will arc backward of the 90 degree line.

Now. Assuming you strike the object ball with a stunned white, and therefore the white travels on the 90 degree (stun) line. How far will it go? The answer depends on how hard/fast you play the white and also the angle of the pot. Many people ignore/neglect the latter point but it is just as important. The narrower the angle, the less of the total force in the white is applied to the stun path. The wider the angle, the more of the total force is applied to the stun path.

If you imagine a right angle triangle draw on the cloth where the long side is the line of aim/path of the white. The next side comes from the object ball on the point of contact and runs directly away from the pocket. The final side connects the white and this 2nd line, forming a right angle. With that in mind, imagine widening the angle of the pot. The 3rd side gets longer as you do this. This 3rd side, and it's length, represents the amount of power which goes into the stun path of the white.

What I've just described above is, in physics terms, a vector diagram of the forces applied to the white by the collision (very simplified) and the 3rd side is the component which is applied in the sideways/stun direction.

[vmax4steve]

I would not immediately assume it was a problem with your cue action or technique. Instead I would look for practice routines for stun shots and learn to control them better. There was a recent forum post here where people listed various practice routines, search for that.

Here are some important facts about the physics of stun, if you understand these you will be able to explain what you see on the table, and will then know what to change to get what you want.

When you strike the white it will initially slide (aka stun). The friction of the cloth erodes the sliding force until it exceeds it, at which point the white very quickly develops natural forward roll (where the rolling/forward rotation is relative to the speed of the white). So, a stun shot is a shot where the white is sliding/stunned when it strikes the object ball. If it develops any roll before striking the white then it will not be fully stunned. There is a very small window where it has some but not complete natural roll, and at this point you get partial stun.

When the white strikes the object ball it will always initially head off at 90 degrees to the path the object ball will take. If it has forward roll it will very quickly arc forward of this, the amount depends on the speed of the white (or rather, how much forward rotation it has which is directly proportional to the speed). If it was stunned it will stay on the 90 degree line. If it has screw (backward rotation) it will arc backward of the 90 degree line.

Now. Assuming you strike the object ball with a stunned white, and therefore the white travels on the 90 degree (stun) line. How far will it go? The answer depends on how hard/fast you play the white and also the angle of the pot. Many people ignore/neglect the latter point but it is just as important. The narrower the angle, the less of the total force in the white is applied to the stun path. The wider the angle, the more of the total force is applied to the stun path.

If you imagine a right angle triangle draw on the cloth where the long side is the line of aim/path of the white. The next side comes from the object ball on the point of contact and runs directly away from the pocket. The final side connects the white and this 2nd line, forming a right angle. With that in mind, imagine widening the angle of the pot. The 3rd side gets longer as you do this. This 3rd side, and it's length, represents the amount of power which goes into the stun path of the white.

What I've just described above is, in physics terms, a vector diagram of the forces applied to the white by the collision (very simplified) and the 3rd side is the component which is applied in the sideways/stun direction.

Chapter 13 paragraph 12 from the nrage bible.

nrage or Stephen Hawking ? you decide.
Would explain his high break though.

[davisskeggsm]

correct me if i'm wrong but to stun the cue ball do you cue it just below the centre of the ball in the middle?

[Gerry Armstrong]

You can cue above centre on the cue ball and still play a stun shot i.e. above centre, centre and below centre can all result in stun shots.

[davisskeggsm]

oh ok thanks mate

[calvinlim]

thanks nrage.. will now start object my routine of practicing.. but yesterday watched d replay of goldfish tournament.. just curious their stun shot is so smoothly place on d next shot..

[willtyson]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9004[/ATTACH]


Chapter 13 paragraph 12 from the nrage bible.

nrage or Stephen Hawking ? you decide.
Would explain his high break though.

Lol... :snooker:

[Terry Davidson]

To really understand stun you have to understand that it's just SCREW and nothing else. The delivery doesn't change for stun as some players thing.

Think about it...if the cueball is on the baulkline and you have a straight-in red about 1.5ft from the top pocket you need to stun (in other words STOP, you would hit that shot with deep screw but not as hard than when you need to screw back for the pink ball. Some players will hit the cueball at H2.5 or so (scale H1 to H10) and hit it at the same power as a deep screw and some players will hit the cueball at H1 and therefore don't have to hit the cueball so hard.

To stun the cueball it's only necessary to change the height of the tip on the cueball however it takes a little time because of course distance between the balls comes into it and also if a player wants to play a pure stun shot then the cueball will leave the object ball at right around 90degrees so from there it's easy to calculate whether you want to narrow that angle by hitting at say H6 or increase the angle to more than 90degrees by hitting at H3.

Terry

[hatterboard]

terry
without trying to sound thick, what is the H1-H10 scale ? is there a link i could look at ?

[Terry Davidson]

hatterboard:

It's something from the Nic Barrow school. It's pretty easy, the 'H' stands for Height and H1 would be deep screw and H10 would be maximum top spin. It rises around 8mm (almost a small tip width or so) with each number so H5 is exact centre ball.

There's also P1 to P10 for Power and each player would have a different scale on this one as P10 would be the maximum power a player can use and still hit the ball accurately. To scale it you need to shoot the spots with maximum power and see how many table lengths you get. If you get 5 table lengths then each number is a half-table length, P1 would be brown to pink spot, P2 off the top cushion and back to the pink spot, and it goes like that although it's only approximate as a lot of players will get 5 table lengths but the cueball will be outside the yellow or green spots on the 4th leg so they are hitting it at P12 or something like that and their P10 should be less power.

There's also R1 to R5 and L1 to L5 for Right and Left side. So for a coach he can tell the student to play a shot H6/P4/R3. The one thing to remember is you cannot get R5 or L5 once you are past H7 or so because of the curve of the cueball from it's waistline.

Terry

[willtyson]

training cue ball.jpg This cue ball shows the Hs sorry if the pictures a bit small! :snooker:

[hotpot]

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Chapter 13 paragraph 12 from the nrage bible.

nrage or Stephen Hawking ? you decide.
Would explain his high break though.

Does it matter or bother you where the info comes from , i,m cetainly not bothered whether its nrage,s own info or whether he read it elsewhere or if it first , second or third hand , what,s important is its right .

[Inoffthered]

Does it matter or bother you where the info comes from , i,m cetainly not bothered whether its nrage,s own info or whether he read it elsewhere or if it first , second or third hand , what,s important is its right .

Agreed. But unfortunately... double standards 4tw.

Funny how the PC brigade has it's own set of rules for the same scenario. Nrage are you Caucasian, by chance? Cos if not, wouldn't that make this a racist attack?

PMSL.

[nrage]

Does it matter or bother you where the info comes from , i,m cetainly not bothered whether its nrage,s own info or whether he read it elsewhere or if it first , second or third hand , what,s important is its right .

It seems to bother him, but luckily that doesn't bother me

Agreed. But unfortunately... double standards 4tw.

Funny how the PC brigade has it's own set of rules for the same scenario. Nrage are you Caucasian, by chance? Cos if not, wouldn't that make this a racist attack?

PMSL.

Caucasian, he doesn't even have 'race' as an excuse for his hate..