An intriguing observation: The Ronnie practice Grip

[Sidd]

Oh don't take on so Coach, please do not be devastated. I can assure you that your pearls of wisdom are not falling on deaf ears. What I meant was that I know it is so for every shot however for some unknown reason I was not following that up on every shot and so maybe that is the real reason why my potting has suffered greatly. As you have reassured that it is due to this very reason i.e. not driving the grip hand to the chest- also equal to- tightening the grip before time. This is good for me in a way that I can work on driving the grip hand to the chest and ultimately achieve a loose grip

The dummy or swing thought, as you call it, is something that I really think will work great for me. I will surely apply that immediately and hope that the results will be there. I will tell you exactly what has been happening.

I started playing since 17 or 19 years of age (can't seem to remember) and continued playing for like 13 or 14 years without a coach or even self-help coaching. You know very well that back then there were no things like youtube or forums etc so I developed my game without knowing what technique is all about. Just going to play and putting much practice in to the game made me a kind of a mediocre player. Then when I started playing seriously and reached you here on this forum was like on later 2011 so after learning the basics I have to get rid of the bad habits I developed as a novice. That sometimes takes time but I am following on your pearls steadily and continuing to improve.

Lets see now, with this sweet thought in mind I shall play tonight and try to achieve grip hand on every shot to the chest and see how I can improve. I am pretty happy now that, as you said, that only this single thing can bring improvement fast in our game... counting on that so lets see...!!!!!!! So long coach!

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

I notice your English spelling is better than mine (devastated). The term 'swing thought' comes from golf and is used by almost every golf teaching pro I've ever heard of and I believe it's a good thing to have in snooker. Just one thought which should try and remedy the individual player's worst problem or what he feels is his worst problem

Terry

[Sidd]

Thanks Coach. And guess what; your sweet thought seemed for work absolutely perfectly for me tonight and I am sure it will continue. I played remarkably well even though there werent breaks but I did not miss easy ones at least and did good safety as well... I just kept in my head one thing only that I need ot drive through and I did hit every shot as if the cue ball isnt there with this sweet thought that I am hitting the object ball with my cue tip. And it really really does work big time

I don't think that I shall ever be able to thank you enough for all your patience, guidence and trust in me that has started to bring results and seems to be working fine...!

Proud to be your student and a better player!!!

[Sidd]

So I have been playing consistently now for the last four days and that is a real achievement for me. No wonder I am delighted happy and satisfied these days. Its as if everything has changed for me. Previously when I used to play bad I used to be anguished and when I played well I used to be scared that it will soon go away, which is what did use to happen every now and then and hence my fears were not fictitious.

However, now that Terry has worked with me over many thnigs by answering my silly questions with patience and wisdom; I have been able to comprehend the fact that technique is most important part of a snooker player's life. So after getting the pre-shot routine, stance and other things in line including sighting etc the only thing that I think was bad was driving through the cue. However both Terry and I were trying to find out, perhaps, what my worst problem is.... and then came the day when Coach pointed it out for me... and since that day my confidence and game has improved and has been like it has never been before.

I am at least playing consistently with that sweet thought of yours Coach and shall carry on like that and I am sure things will improve. Still on a 25-35 break level but well that is becoming consistent, whcih means it will improve and take me to regular 50 plus very soon

HAts off coach... keep coaching and keep guiding souls like me...!

[kennethkoo]

Sidd:

Just a comment on when the grip tightens which is ANYTIME AFTER THE CUEBALL HAS BEEN STRUCK and not when the grip hand hits the chest but it is important to drive the grip hand through to the chest. You have to tighten the grip in order to overcome the resistance of striking the cueball and still drive the cue through.

Give the 2-3 finger grip a good trial as it might balance out a premature elbow drop if you have one and also give my other idea a trial (the baby finger right off the butt and curled into the palm right at the back of the cue) and see how it goes too as I find it does help with minimizing the wrist turn a lot of players get when they tighten the baby finger on the butt.

I'm not recommending you play permanently with this type of grip however there's really nothing wrong with it and Matthew Stevens uses this grip almost exclusively.

To define EXACTLY how tight the grip should be I will have to give Steve Davis the thanks for coming up with this definition of grip firmness. Hold the cue across your upper thighs using your normal grip then with your bridge hand grasp the shaft and move the cue through the grip hand, not allowing the grip hand to move at all. The butt of the cue should move easily within the grip hand.

The other point is with this looseness of grip, if when delivering a power shot (and you've mastered keeping the grip loose until the strike) if the grip hand slides up the cue this is NOT an indication that the grip is too loose but rather that the acceleration is too rapid.

Terry

Hi Terry, I have adopted the loose grip for a while now and it has greatly improved my game though there are still other aspects of my game that needs addressing. Quoting you reply, I keep my grip rather loose even until the cue has struck the cue ball and on power shots my cue slides out of my grip a little (say maybe an inch) once my thumb hits my chest. For example, I may be holding the cue 2 inches from the end of the butt but after the shot I will be gripping closer to the butt end of the cue.

Is this a good thing or a bad one? As you mentioned the effect of the acceleration of the cue being too rapid the grip hand slides up the cue. for my case my grip hand is sliding down the cue. Is this an indication of my grip being too loose? Please advice. Thanks

[Terry Davidson]

kenneth:

The absolutely IDEAL thing is that the grip doesn't tighten at all until the back of the thumb hits the chest and squeezes the butt between the top of the thumb and the top of the forefinger. However, this cannot be done on any shots that need some power as the cue will meet the resistance of the cueball and the grip needs to tighten a bit in order to keep the acceleration going THROUGH the cueball.

What you are doing I think is fine except there might be a touch of lack of control of the butt of the cue but as long as you can do this and get the power you need (and also not have the cue slide completely out of the grip and across the table) then you should be fine

Terry

[kennethkoo]

I see. The cue does slide from my grip but does not slip across the table. There is a question I have in regards of the grip. When I first adopted the loose grip method, I had a hard time because I used to grip the cue too tightly it seems. When I got the hang of it, I only gripped the cue using my thumb and index finger that forms a ring while my middle finger would provide a light support to the ring. The last two fingers are resting but does not place any pressure on the grip at all. When all these are placed all together, a loose grip is formed, with a slight gap between the cue and the web of my hand (between the thumb and index finger). The feeling is like the cue's weight is placed at the bottom part of the ring since the web is not fully in contact with the cue.

This has provided me a lot more cue power when it comes to screw and follow shots, but this grip of mine had a downfall, it did not provide sufficient feedback of the shot i am playing. In exchange of good follow through, I had trouble judging the power of a shot especially when it came to delicate shots.

I have been doing some adjustments to my stance and grip lately. What i did was I adjusted my grip and instead of leaving a slight gap between the cue and the web of my hand, the ring that is formed by the thumb and index finger fully wraps the cue leaving no gap at all between the cue and the web of my hand. All of this is done with as little pressure to the cue as possible. Now, instead of having the feeling of the cue resting on the bottom part of the ring, the cue's weight is evenly distributed in the grip. This adjusted grip of mine is a little firmer than the previous grip. Though the cue ball action that I achieve using the much looser grip was a better, this firmer grip seems to provide a much better feedback in terms of cue ball control. My positional shots are much better and at the same time during power shots, my cue does not seem to slide out of my grip as much as it used to.

So Terry, do you think that having the web of the hand fully in contact with the cue is better? In better I mean the right way.

[kennethkoo]

I see. The cue does slide from my grip but does not slip across the table. There is a question I have in regards of the grip. When I first adopted the loose grip method, I had a hard time because I used to grip the cue too tightly it seems. When I got the hang of it, I only gripped the cue using my thumb and index finger that forms a ring while my middle finger would provide a light support to the ring. The last two fingers are resting but does not place any pressure on the grip at all. When all these are placed all together, a loose grip is formed, with a slight gap between the cue and the web of my hand (between the thumb and index finger). The feeling is like the cue's weight is placed at the bottom part of the ring since the web is not fully in contact with the cue.

This has provided me a lot more cue power when it comes to screw and follow shots, but this grip of mine had a downfall, it did not provide sufficient feedback of the shot i am playing. In exchange of good follow through, I had trouble judging the power of a shot especially when it came to delicate shots.

I have been doing some adjustments to my stance and grip lately. What i did was I adjusted my grip and instead of leaving a slight gap between the cue and the web of my hand, the ring that is formed by the thumb and index finger fully wraps the cue leaving no gap at all between the cue and the web of my hand. All of this is done with as little pressure exerted to the cue as possible. Now, instead of having the feeling of the cue resting on the bottom part of the ring, the cue's weight is evenly distributed along the ring. This adjusted grip of mine is a little firmer than the previous grip. Though the cue ball action that I achieve using the much looser grip was a little better(since a looser grip lets the cue accelerate faster), this firmer grip seems to provide a much better feedback in terms of cue ball control. My positional shots are much better and at the same time during power shots, my cue does not seem to slide out of my grip as much as it used to.

So Terry, do you think that having the web of the hand fully in contact with the cue is better? In better I mean the right way.

[Terry Davidson]

kenneth:

Definitely better to have NO 'air gap' between the web and the butt. As you say this gives a more positive feedback loop for cueing and if you are still comfortable with it then it is the way to go for sure.

Terry

[snookergr]

Terry I love reading your answers, they are very well explained and documented as always :-)

kenneth:

The absolutely IDEAL thing is that the grip doesn't tighten at all until the back of the thumb hits the chest and squeezes the butt between the top of the thumb and the top of the forefinger. However, this cannot be done on any shots that need some power as the cue will meet the resistance of the cueball and the grip needs to tighten a bit in order to keep the acceleration going THROUGH the cueball.

What you are doing I think is fine except there might be a touch of lack of control of the butt of the cue but as long as you can do this and get the power you need (and also not have the cue slide completely out of the grip and across the table) then you should be fine

Terry

[moose147]

I play with more of a Stephen Hendry grip, although in the last couple of years I have really had trouble playing screw shots or shots with screw and side. On hitting the ball I have been flexing my wrist downwards which causes me to "stab" at the ball and I cannot get through the ball, would you think this is some sign of "cueitis" ??

[cyberheater]

I've changed my grip a lot and basically just grip the cue by curling my index finger loosely around the cue, the thumb is straight down and relaxed and provides just enough lateral pressure to stop the cue falling out of my hands and my other 3 fingers have nothing to do with the grip.

I'm amazed I can still play power shots with so little actual contact. My potting has improved a lot. Especially on long pots.

[chas6868]

O Sullivan is a more smooth player now than he was in the 90s,he has worked on his technique alright but has the class to make it all look easy and not laboured.

[chas6868]

Iam glad to hear that my grips the same as Ronnie as I thought it was a wee bit wrong, resting it more on the 2nd finger, then I do tend to hit right through the ball and drop the elbow a bit, maybe the two are linked.
I used to try more of a Davis style years ago but I started playing a lot of 9 ball where you have to hit right through the ball(softly and hard) to get a lot of spin on the cue ball.
Who knows what style is best look at Robertson v O Sullivan two different technique ,two class act, I did notice that Robertson looked like he had a slightly shorter bridge than most of the top player, not by much,

[j6uk]

Ron hits from the elbow! Simple..
A neutral so called grip, were his middle finger is keeping everything on line with the pads of the others and, a kind of cocked trigger first finger then, the back of the hand will be open on most shots.
He'll watch that cue come back nice and slow, transfer the eyes and, the rest is sweet timing