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**merlin1234** · 29 January 2012, 03:43 PM

Hi, having looked at your pics I suggest that the problem is that you're not actually holding your cue.

**willtyson** · 29 January 2012, 03:49 PM

Unless you bought the cue from Fedia, then cues don't usually play by themselves. Perhaps try holding it

:snooker:

**Erwan_BZH** · 29 January 2012, 04:01 PM

ARGH! My bad, didn't check that vids were actually working! Let me correct this!!

EDIT: LINKS FIXED!

thanks for letting me know

**Terry Davidson** · 29 January 2012, 04:38 PM

Hmmm...where to start?

First of all you are not down on the shot properly. Get your left armpit right down on the cushion. You should be bending the left leg more to get down comfortably.

Secondly...when you start to deliver the cue your head and shoulders are coming forward into the shot in an attempt (I guess) to get more power or something. It is absolutely VITAL to have the cue as level as possible and to keep the upper body ABSOLUTELY STILL from the time your bridge hand hits the table until AFTER you have delivered the cue.

Thirdly...the butt of the cue is way to high and should be only about 1in above the cushion. This should get corrected when you get down into the shot properly.

Fourth...there wasn't a really good view of what your grip is doing during the delivery. The cue butt should rest in the cradle of the 4 fingers with the thumb pointing straight down to the floor when in the address position. The tightness of the grip should only be enough to move the cue, which means no pressure from the fingers or thumb at all. (With thanks to Steve Davis the proper pressure should be like this...grip the cue as you normally would across your upper thighs then using your left hand grasp the shaft and see if you can EASILY push the butt of the cue back and forth inside your grip hand without allowing the grip hand to move).

Fifth...you have a pretty sever bend in your bridge arm which you should straighten out. Do this by gripping the cue a little farther back on the butt and then you should have anywhere from 9" to 12" from the 'V' of your bridge to the back of the cueball when in the address position.

Sixth...when in the address position the tip of the cue should be only 1/4" or less from the back of the cueball.

Seventh...on a shot of any amount of power ALWAYS drive the griphand through to the chest.

Eighth...ensure you maintain the looser grip pressure until you strike the cueball. This is a very difficult thing to do as the natural tendency is to tighten the grip at the start of the delivery in order to get the acceleration required, however this is NOT necessary. Try the following exercise after doing the eight items above (do them ONE AT A TIME by the way). Grip the cue right at the back with your baby finger off the butt and curled into your palm and then try some shots and see if you still have that right-hand side on the cueball. Go up to maximum power (4 to 5 lengths of the table shooting the spots) and see if the cueball comes back on the fourth leg at least within one ball width of the brown spot on the fourth leg (providing the table is level).

Once you get all this post up another video showing a close-up view of your grip hand so I can see exactly when you are tightening the grip as just this one problem leads to shoulder movement and taking the butt off the line of aim which the brain recognizes and tries to compensate for but always over-compensates as the delivery is a lot more dynamic than the backswing.

Last point...the backswing should be slow and deliberate and it has to be slow enough so you can keep it absolutely straight and also prevent the shoulder and head rising during the backswing

Terry

**Erwan_BZH** · 29 January 2012, 05:37 PM

Wow...never thought there would be so many bad points pointed out! But it's pretty eye-opening I have to admit.

Let me just answer point per point here:

First of all you are not down on the shot properly. Get your left armpit right down on the cushion. You should be bending the left leg more to get down comfortably.
==> Hmm never noticed that, however I do feel I have sometimes too much of a 'rounded' back when playing, eg not playing flat. I'll pay more attention to this point!
Speaking about legs, which stance do you think I should 'logically' adopt? I say 'logically' here on purpose as according to many theoricans of the game, if you're right-eyed and right-handed player, you must use the square stance. However, I have never felt quite comfortable with the square stance. I use to play with my left foot a bit ahead, in kind of a 'semi-boxer'.

Secondly...when you start to deliver the cue your head and shoulders are coming forward into the shot in an attempt (I guess) to get more power or something. It is absolutely VITAL to have the cue as level as possible and to keep the upper body ABSOLUTELY STILL from the time your bridge hand hits the table until AFTER you have delivered the cue.
==> Yep, totally agree here. I had noticed all this movement some time ago and since this video, I try to stay much more still. will analyze it in a another video later, to make sure I did it correctly now.

Thirdly...the butt of the cue is way to high and should be only about 1in above the cushion. This should get corrected when you get down into the shot properly.
==>Now you say it, it looks so blatant....don't know why I never noticed it....

Fourth...there wasn't a really good view of what your grip is doing during the delivery. The cue butt should rest in the cradle of the 4 fingers with the thumb pointing straight down to the floor when in the address position. The tightness of the grip should only be enough to move the cue, which means no pressure from the fingers or thumb at all. (With thanks to Steve Davis the proper pressure should be like this...grip the cue as you normally would across your upper thighs then using your left hand grasp the shaft and see if you can EASILY push the butt of the cue back and forth inside your grip hand without allowing the grip hand to move).
==>I'll try to get you a rear view of the grip soon.

Fifth...you have a pretty sever bend in your bridge arm which you should straighten out. Do this by gripping the cue a little farther back on the butt and then you should have anywhere from 9" to 12" from the 'V' of your bridge to the back of the cueball when in the address position.
==>hmm ok I see, I think my mistake here is that I tend to pattern a bit John Higgins's grip here, who holds its cue a bit ahead of the end of the butt but I guess John being much smaller than me, gripping there is logical....but it's not working for me. will correct that.

Sixth...when in the address position the tip of the cue should be only 1/4" or less from the back of the cueball.
==>Noticed that as well. Need to pay more attention to it

Seventh...on a shot of any amount of power ALWAYS drive the griphand through to the chest.
==> I thought I was hitting the chest all the time. Maybe I have corrected this since then because I don't feel my cue is too loose under my chest anymore. Will keep an eye on it

Eighth...ensure you maintain the looser grip pressure until you strike the cueball. This is a very difficult thing to do as the natural tendency is to tighten the grip at the start of the delivery in order to get the acceleration required, however this is NOT necessary. Try the following exercise after doing the eight items above (do them ONE AT A TIME by the way). Grip the cue right at the back with your baby finger off the butt and curled into your palm and then try some shots and see if you still have that right-hand side on the cueball. Go up to maximum power (4 to 5 lengths of the table shooting the spots) and see if the cueball comes back on the fourth leg at least within one ball width of the brown spot on the fourth leg (providing the table is level).
==> I'll test it on the table but the quick test I did minute ago on my desk, with the baby finger off the grip, looks conclusive, at first glance. I don't feel I drift anymore. will test on the table though.

Once you get all this post up another video showing a close-up view of your grip hand so I can see exactly when you are tightening the grip as just this one problem leads to shoulder movement and taking the butt off the line of aim which the brain recognizes and tries to compensate for but always over-compensates as the delivery is a lot more dynamic than the backswing.
==> Yeah, this is what I fear, the grip issue that leads to so many collateral issues...I will get you a video of the grip.

Last point...the backswing should be slow and deliberate and it has to be slow enough so you can keep it absolutely straight and also prevent the shoulder and head rising during the backswing
==>Hmm I know I have a incredible tendency to sntach the ball sometimes, especially on a power shot (and by tightening the grip as well in the mean time), I think this is what you are talking about here.

Anyway, thanks a lot Terry, I will go through your list and make all the adjustements you suggest and will get back to you!

**Ultimate_snooker** · 29 January 2012, 07:17 PM

I love these types of threads with pics and videos. Well terry is amazing! I watched the vids and all i could find was
1. cue not going through straight
2. cue not level with table, Butt higher
3. Dropping the elbow after follow through. Not supposed to do that but players like ronnie, lee and hendry get away with it lol

But now terry has told you how to go on im going to subscribe to this thread and look out for your new videos :snooker:

**Erwan_BZH** · 29 January 2012, 10:46 PM

Yeah, it's pretty amazing what you can get as information from an external eye. Very useful!

**cazmac1** · 29 January 2012, 11:01 PM

I know every one body shape is different but your shoulders seem very square to the table. You cue arm shoulder seems to be sticking out and not behind you head as I thought it should be. Can you comment on this terry??

**Erwan_BZH** · 29 January 2012, 11:09 PM

Hmm yeah, that's true to a certain extent but I think it has to do with my struggling stance.

**cazmac1** · 29 January 2012, 11:16 PM

Liked your vid's by the way

**Ultimate_snooker** · 29 January 2012, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by cazmac1 View Post

Liked your vid's by the way

Yes we need more of them on the forum

**DandyA** · 30 January 2012, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by Ultimate_snooker View Post

I love these types of threads with pics and videos. Well terry is amazing! I watched the vids and all i could find was
1. cue not going through straight
2. cue not level with table, Butt higher
3. Dropping the elbow after follow through. Not supposed to do that but players like ronnie, lee and hendry get away with it lol

But now terry has told you how to go on im going to subscribe to this thread and look out for your new videos :snooker:

First of all Erwan, well done for posting those vids - oh, and your cue action is a hell of a lot better than mine

But I have to admit I can't see many of Terry's points either - I'd like to understand but I can't see them ...

(1) head moves forward on delivery ... on video 4, Erwan's head is seen against a picture in the background and looks rock solid to me ... where's the movement? I've never seen a slo-mo but I suspect Judd Trump's head moves more on certain shots ...

(2) left armpit not low enough ... video 1 shows it all but touching the baulk cushion ...

(3) bridge arm bent too much horizontally - it's maybe 20 degrees which I wouldn't think is extreme - there's pros that play with more bend although I personally prefer as straight as my ageing body finds comfortable ...

So, I'm not a coach but I'd be looking at pretty much ultimate_snooker's analysis ... general setup looks good and nice delivery through the ball but ...

(a) butt way too high (as Terry pointed out also) ... you are always cueing down on the cueball which means you'll always impart some side on the white unless you hit exactly centre ball which is unlikely ... this is surely your biggest fault, try using a spider rest to play every shot and see how you get on - that's effectively what you are doing ...

(b) not delivering the cue straight ... coaches can talk about changes that might help but at the end of the day, you or I have to simply concentrate on hitting straight through the white ... it's the holy grail of snooker - you can see this "across the line" delivery in the first shot of video 1 ...

(c) elbow drop ... I do it too naturally and indeed the mighty Del Hill coaches the "down to up" motion and Ronnie does it too so it can't be that wrong although I'd prefer to hit absolutely straight down the line ... with or without elbow drop .... so I wouldn't worry about it ...

I'm definitely not a coach, indeed I'm just a once-a-week player with a high break of 31 (which I'm very proud of LOL) but I'd like to understand more, hence this posting ... but I wouldn't fiddle too much except to stop cueing down on the white (ie butt too high) ... it seems to me you are swerving every shot - if the white doesn't swerve offline, the spin on the white will throw the object ball offline with spin induced throw ...

Sorry for interfering but I wanted to get my 2c in ...

**Erwan_BZH** · 30 January 2012, 07:29 AM

No pb Dandy, always useful to have several inputs while discussing techniques!

I'm going to the club tonight so I'll pay attention to all of this for sure!

**Terry Davidson** · 30 January 2012, 12:52 PM

Erwan & Dandy:

Now this is where I have trouble with trying to coach in this format. Regarding the head/shoulder movement...when I say the head/shoulder area should be still I MEAN ABSOLUTELY STILL. In every one of the 4 videos I can see small movements in not only the head/shoulder area but also the hips are moving sideways (to the left) also.

To show you just how much this effects accuracy I would like BOTH of you to try the following (it will take 10 seconds). Get down into the address position with your tip just about touching the cueball. Lock your eyes on the tip/cueball area and take in a small breath and see what happens to the tip. In a right-handed player the tip will move up and to the left and it might only be 1mm or so but that is enough to cause problems, especially on long pots.

When I say still I mean ABSOLUTELY STILL!!! Watch John Higgins or any other good pro when they have the camera on them for a straight in black and their head is in the frame. I can never detect any head movement with John or quite a few other pro players, including Judd Trump. With Judd I will admit there is some head movement on power shots but this is taking place AFTER the cueball has been struck. I've seen the same with Higgins.

But with Erwan I can see movement with the head/shoulder and hip area WHILE HE IS FEATHERING and then again on the backswing and delivery. You must cut out all movement from the time you get down into the shot until AFTER you delivery the cue. Oh, and by the way DON'T BREATHE either during that time.

I must have missed the shoulder and yes it should be hidden by the head in a straight-on view and I hope you are able to correct this and get the right shoulder up and in behind the head but more importantly STILL ON THE SHOT

Terry

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