Can someone explain throw?

[sixofclubs]

Was having a game the other day with a mate who is better than me (not hard, I'm still learning) and a situation came up where I had a very marginal pot to the corner pocket with two touching reds - it was so tight I asked my friend for his opinion on whether it would go ( was a friendly game) and he said that with a smidgeon of left hand side at low ish pace this would 'throw' the cue ball towards the pocket.

My understanding about sidespin was that it didn't do much to the object ball and that it only really took effect on the cue ball after striking a cushion.

I've also heard people say that certain cues are better than others for throwing the cue ball off line.

Can someone explain to me what all this means?

[jaffa.johnson]

My understanding is,

you pick it up off the floor and with a little force you chuck/swing it at somebody letting go off the object in mid air; trying to hit them in the head

Sorry not even read the post, just the title.

[sixofclubs]

Sounds like you throw like a girl, haha

[sixofclubs]

My next question is how do you delete a thread once you've put two up by mistake?!!!!!!!!!!

[jaffa.johnson]

Sounds like you throw like a girl, haha

lol, I should have mentioned overarm swing.

[dcrackers147]

Was having a game the other day with a mate who is better than me (not hard, I'm still learning) and a situation came up where I had a very marginal pot to the corner pocket with two touching reds - it was so tight I asked my friend for his opinion on whether it would go ( was a friendly game) and he said that with a smidgeon of left hand side at low ish pace this would 'throw' the cue ball towards the pocket.

My understanding about sidespin was that it didn't do much to the object ball and that it only really took effect on the cue ball after striking a cushion.

I've also heard people say that certain cues are better than others for throwing the cue ball off line.

Can someone explain to me what all this means?

Basically when you play with side you create a different energy on the whiteball when it makes cotnact with the object ball this energy makes the ball react differently. This can be used in your case as an advantage by "helping the pot" this is when you can use the relevant side spin to create the different reaction so you cant hit the ball as to miss it if yuo cannot see enough of it but the side will turn the ball towards the pocket. i hope this helps

[LittleMissAlexa]

throw hits the object ball differently its actually like a kick in a way

[Siz]

Rh side will throw the ob to the left. Not much, but can be enough to pot a ball that would not otherwise go. Only works at slow pace and works best with stun.

[ADR147]

Rh side will throw the ob to the left. Not much, but can be enough to pot a ball that would not otherwise go. Only works at slow pace and works best with stun.

yes stun and screw only.

[vmax4steve]

Rh side will throw the ob to the left. Not much, but can be enough to pot a ball that would not otherwise go. Only works at slow pace and works best with stun.

A slow stun shot ?

sixofclubs

this has been discussed many times on this forum, type sidespin into the search engine and explore.

[Siz]

A slow stun shot ?

Slow = not hard
Stun = sliding at contact

If you prefer, screw or drag (depending on the distance); but the salient point is that the cb is sliding, not rolling or spinning backwards.

[themayorofflair]

My understanding of throw is that if you are playing a shot with side you will be hitting the side of the cueball with only part of your tip (ie if you are playing right hand side you will be hitting the right hand side of the cuecall with the left hand side of the tip). As the cueball is spherical in nature it will push the ball slightly to the left at impact. This is throw. I for one think it happens on every shot with side although is exaggerated when playing stun & screw.

To complicate matters somewhat I also feel that when applying side the cueball will also swerve back in slightly after it has initially been thrown (in the same fashion as a swerve shot only much less).

To complicate matters further, different cloths will swerve the cueball back in different amounts. Each cloth can take a little getting used to.

This is why playing with side should only be a last resort & you will find most really decent players only use it when necessary of when showing off when a frame is won etc.

I for one am in the habit of using too much side which is the main reason I am NOT that good a player.

Hope this answers your question, it was a good one !

[thelongbomber]

First of all, you need to understand a few things about balls. Snooker balls are not covered in glass and are not perfectly smooth all the time. Older, dirtier balls tend to have chips, dings, and in some cases hold more chalk. The club may also clean snooker balls and, in my case at the club, wax them once in a while too which makes them more glass like. Ball temperature also plays a role in how the balls play on the table. Colder balls attract moisture (like the glass on your car), while warmer (or room temperature balls) run faster. Snooker balls are smooth yes, but they always have some texture - unless you play a brand new set. Players have become accustomed to use chalk so as to impart more spin on the CB (cue ball). In fact when chalk was first invented players would rough up the end of their cue which was just wood (yes no leather tip or ferrule) and the chalk material was called spinning chalk.

Now, when someone says you cannot impart side on the object ball (which Steve Davis famously says in one of his coaching videos) what they really mean is that you can't impart any significant side on the object ball. The pros know the truth and the truth is, you can impart a tiny bit.

Next is something called the gear effect (well I just call it that). Think of two balls making contact as having a temporary set of engine gears. If the first rotates left, the next ball rotates right, etc, etc.

Now, given what I have just told you, if you were to put left hand side on the CB (cue ball), it will (taking into account the ball and table conditions noted above) impart slight amounts of right hand side on the OB (object ball). So, by logic, if you need the OB to turn left (lets say around another ball and to help direct it into the pocket) you will want the OB to have left hand side. Thus, you will then need right hand side on the CB (because of the gear effect mentioned above). Logic will also tell you that softer, slower, and better cued shots will have a longer gear effect take place and so if you want to turn an OB around another ball or towards a pocket, you may want to shoot a soft shot. If you shoot the shot hard, hoping more pace might induce more spin transfer (via the gear effect), you may also inadvertently cause the CB to hop along the table which then almost certainly makes the OB hop which then kills your intended spin transfer in the first place.

Finally, throw. When you strike the CB off center, the CB in nearly ever case will go off the intended line of aim by the amount you strike off center. Thus if you strike the CB with the cue level to the table and 2 tips left of center, the CB will almost certainly veer to the right of the intended line of aim. This scenario imparts a certain amount of left hand side on the CB and over the course of a 12 foot table may then cause the CB to then turn back onto the line of aim (because of the left hand side). You don't see it because you don't notice it but any time you strike left/right of center, it's almost certain that the cue ball either squirts off line or curves back onto the intended line of aim.

Throw is also something cue makers understand. A whippier cue tends to absorb more of the CB squirt vs a stiffer cue where the cue stays online and the CB squirts off line (rather than the cue). How your shaft is tapered also plays a role. A conical or straight taper squirts less and plays more stiff whereas an American taper (where the last X inches are the same diameter) allows the cue to deflect more, and the CB to deflect less. In any case, any time you play left/right of center, either the CB is going to go off the line of aim, or the cue will go offline. In most cases, both the cue and the CB will squirt a certain amount and as you become accustomed to your cue, you begin to understand how much spin/squirt it plays with. American pool players that often need to use left/right spin on the smaller table to maneuver the CB around into position for the next shot have adapted low deflection shafts from companies like Predator. These low deflection shafts are actually very whippy from the viewpoint of a snooker player and absorb the deflection when shooting left/right of center by bending off line. This allow the CB to travel down the intended path even when you strike far left/right of center. In snooker, we tend to prefer stiff cues for the long range shots, but then also need some shaft flexibility so as to impart the occassional top/bottom/left/right spin.

Players that don't understand all this stuff tend to impart (or negate) spin, squirt, CB throw etc by modifying their cue action, raising the cue up, swirving their arm, aiming offline, and more.

Watch this video to further understand squirt, throw, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO5-v75Hmjg

[Siz]

.... A whippier cue tends to absorb more of the CB squirt vs a stiffer cue where the cue stays online and the CB squirts off line (rather than the cue). How your shaft is tapered also plays a role. A conical or straight taper squirts less and plays more stiff whereas an American taper (where the last X inches are the same diameter) allows the cue to deflect more, and the CB to deflect less....

A good explanation, but I would make a minor observation on the bit quoted above: Although many people have thought for years that shaft stiffness contributes to squirt / deflection, evidence has shown that this is not the case (at least not to any significant degree). What matters is the 'effective end mass' of the shaft, which is the mass of the last few inches of the shaft. So cues that are thinner (and often more whippy) will deflect less. So will ones that have a straight, or 'pro', taper.

So anyone looking for a cue with low deflection characteristics shouldn't waste time testing for stiffness. In theory cutting down the ferrule could help; but some back-of-the-envelope calculations that I did some time ago when messing around with a cue indicated that it would not make an appreciable amount of difference.

A smaller tip will certainly help, but that is another story...

[sixofclubs]

Thanks for the replies all, some intersting ideas here.