Noticing twist in my cue while feathering

[Sam-Romford]

Hello Everyone,
just wanted to share something i have noticed in my cue action,

Just to do some exercise on my backswing and delivery, i was potting dotted cue ball to the corner pockets from the baulk line, however to double check my backswing is really slow and delivery is gradually accelarated through the ball instead of looking at the pocket i was looking at the cue ball while feathering and backswing and delivery,

now because I use an Ash cue i have noticed that although i am feathering straight and delivering the cue straight but as i am delivering the cue i am rotating the cue clockwise,

now is it acceptable to have this twist on the cue on delivery even thought i deliver the cue straight to the cue ball, or is that considered to be a flaw.

i read in Steve Davis's book that cocking the wrists eleminates any kind of twist, i tried that but that feels uncomfortable. can anyone please explain this whether this twisting is acceptable or shall i cock my wrist, and if i have to cock my wrist whats the proper way of doing it?

i will really appriciate if anyone gives me links to any video clip or picture which explains this issue

Thanks

[tommy_boi]

I do this too, and didn't know if it was normal or not, i have just found this link, give it a read, also what was the book you read?.

http://www.thesnookergym.com/forums/...php/t-971.html

[hotpot]

I had this problem for years and still do it ever so slightly now . My problem was cured by some good advice on here about cocking the wrist and not gripping the cue too tight . Another thing that really helped was the new cue i had about a year ago . The best arrows were on the opposite side as they normally are so i play with the badge down , the butt is 30.5 mm and i find this a great help as my cue keeps straighter than it has with any other cue that i have used in the past .

I always swap my cues as i carry two but the problem magnifies with a smaller butt and badge facing up .

[DeanH]

As hotpot said, I used to twist on final delivery, ie when coming into the body.
Then after advise from TDavidson on here, I changed my grip so the knuckles are kinked outwards at small amount. As Terry describes, the hold is the same as you would with a hammer, so the cue butt is inline with the forearm.
The way I helped to change my grip was keeping the thumb straight (i.e. not curled round the butt) and would be pointing vertically to the floor, this gave me a nice kink of the wrist.
Yes it did feel funny at first but know it is natural and I do not twist or deviate the cue anymore
also as mentioned have a light grip, this solves many problems
all the best

[Terry Davidson]

The twisting of the cue is actually caused by the back 2 fingers coming onto the butt and then immediately gripping the butt in order to slow down the cue and this action will cause the wrist to turn inwards toward the body to enable these back fingers to get a better grip on the butt. It is an unconcious action and very difficult to eliminate. If this action happens AFTER the cueball has been struck then there is no real problem (although it would be better to get rid of it since it tends to 'creep up' in the cue action on power shots and actually will happen just BEFORE the strike of the cueball and will take the butt off-line for most players).

DeanH has is correct (and,of course, so does Steve Davis)...it's much better to eliminate this problem by having the wrist 'cocked' as I term it or 'kinked' as DeanH terms it. In the address position you should have the thumb pointed directly down towards the floor and vertical, BUT in addition at the address position have the back of the palm touching the butt of the cue also and these two things will GUARANTEE you have a good wrist cock and will either entirely stop or at least reduce that bad, bad twisting of the wrist.

The hardest part of this is to find an amount of wrist cock which is comfortable for you. Every player will cock the wrist a different amount and every player has his own individual comfort zone for this. For example, Hendy's wrist cock is probably on 10degrees whilst Steve Davis has a pretty severe wrist cock at around 60 or 70 degrees.

In experimenting with this myself (I have flexible joints) I've found if I get the back of the palm touching the butt at the address position this means I have a wrist cock of around 60degrees or so (tough to measure accurately without photos) but I also find I immediately start to play better, ESPECIALLY on long potting.

Give it a good try. It may feel a bit uncomfortable at first but if you can master it and get it comfortable I guarantee you will delivery the cue more consistently straight and you should see some improvement in your long potting and your cueball control as it seems to promote the acceleration THROUGH the cueball a little better too.

Terry

[Sam-Romford]

Thanks very much indeed tommy boi and Terry and Hotspot

and the book i read is written by steve davis, "Successful Snooker". its quite old.

[hotpot]

Thanks very much indeed tommy boi and Terry and Hotspot

and the book i read is written by steve davis, "Successful Snooker". its quite old.

Where did the S come from muck , its hotpot , i,m not belonging to Michael Barrymore lol .

[Sam-Romford]

@hotPOT

sorry mate, while i was replying to say thanks to you and the rest, i was thinking of that BT advert where the girl says to the other guy
"i didnt know you are such an expert of finding a girl's hotSpot..".......LOL

anyway i literally printed the all the reply i got from you and TDavidson and the rest, and gona take the print out with me to the club.... thanks again...

[hotpot]

@hotPOT

sorry mate, while i was replying to say thanks to you and the rest, i was thinking of that BT advert where the girl says to the other guy
"i didnt know you are such an expert of finding a girl's hotSpot..".......LOL

anyway i literally printed the all the reply i got from you and TDavidson and the rest, and gona take the print out with me to the club.... thanks again...

Lol its ok its Cally,s fault .

[Luke Hooper]

i noticed a number of pros do this as well... i think its because you are probably holding the cue too tight... if you let the cue lay there in your hand and only grip the cue when your hand hits your chest this should solve the problem i think...

sometimes i do that too, its hard to pick up on really... but i figured that if you hade a really loose grip, this doesn't happen anymore...

i twist the cue when i play left handed but its always after the cue ball has been struck so I'm reluctant to change anything as it works perfectly fine...

i also hold the cue completely different when playing left handed, instead of the bevel facing upwards, i have that facing the palm of my hand, i guess its a comfort thing, but again, it works so why change it? lol

[tommy_boi]

I have noticed i play better when i hold the cue tight, and i've also noticed that the cue doesn't twist as much if at all when i hold the cue tighter, so i think this is the reason why i play better, when i hold the cue much more loose, the cue does twist quite bad, i am gonna try and get my technique so i can stop twisting the cue or twisting it less with a loose grip, cause i do find with a tighter grip, even though the cue is twisting less if at all, and my potting is much better, it is harder to play power screw shots and to get through the white with a tighter grip.

[nrage]

I have noticed i play better when i hold the cue tight, and i've also noticed that the cue doesn't twist as much if at all when i hold the cue tighter, so i think this is the reason why i play better, when i hold the cue much more loose, the cue does twist quite bad, i am gonna try and get my technique so i can stop twisting the cue or twisting it less with a loose grip, cause i do find with a tighter grip, even though the cue is twisting less if at all, and my potting is much better, it is harder to play power screw shots and to get through the white with a tighter grip.

I wonder.. when you have a lose grip do you also have a lose wrist? Because if so, this might be the/a problem right there. The key to the "grip" is to have a lose grasp of the cue with the fingers/thumb, but have a wrist which is locked in the left/right and rotation directions. It can flex a little forward to back, if that is how you cue. Some players do this, others have the cue resting on the first finger/thumb which acts more like a pivot point and the wrist remains locked/nearly locked in all directions throughout.

Likewise you don't want to let the elbow or shoulder joints get sloppy either, they should be fixed in place (except if/when your elbow drop occurs) but not tense - if that makes sense. You don't want them moving about, but you don't want a lot of tension in them or your cue action will slow down.

It's hard to describe in words but if you experiment a bit concentrating on how your fingers, wrist, elbow and shoulder feel you will hopefully be able to see what I'm trying to say.

[Terry Davidson]

tommy:

As nrage says, the key is not allowing the wrist joint to move in either direction (sideways or front-to-back) although front-to-back isn't too bad and some players use this to get more cueball action with a 'wrist-flick' but it takes perfect coordination to control that.

Again, we are not really sure what you mean by a 'tighter grip' or how tight or loose you are actually holding the cue. You could have started with a grip that was too loose and have now come back to the correct pressure.

When you grip the cue with your tighter grip can the cue still move freely within the grip? If not, then the grip is too tight and will eventually introduce tension into your upper arm and this will in turn get the shoulder muscle involved in delivering the cue and the fine control of the cue will go out the window.

If you are serious in getting this right then grip the cue so that it will slide easily within the grip and then keep the wrist joint from flexing in towards the body by not gripping the cue tightly with the back 2 fingers until after you've hit the cueball.

If you do not agree with this then go down your own road as perhaps you are one of those rare players who can grip the cue tighter and not have the butt of the cue move sideways on delivery and also not get tension in the upper arm.

Terry

[Thegasman]

Noticing twist in my cue while feathering

Terry would there be any chance of you posting a picture of the grip with the wrist cock you mentioned taken from behind please?

The grip is the major downfall in my game and when bad reduces me to a single ball potter yet when it clicks I've had a lot of 70+ breaks.

If anyone could recommend a coach around the West Sussex to Surrey area it'd be greatly appreciated.

[DeanH]

If anyone could recommend a coach around the West Sussex to Surrey area it'd be greatly appreciated.

The two that I know of that could be close enough for you are:
Tim Dunkley (snookerdad on TSF) based in Southampton/Chandlers Ford
Frank Sandell (franksandellsnooker) Worthing

Tim coaches many players from youngsters on upwards and is very good (personal review).
Some people on here have been to see Frank and have mentioned his great love of the game and they learnt a lot from him but I am not sure if he is "actually" a coach (no offence Mr Sandell ).

Just noticed on Worldsnooker (http://www.worldsnooker.com/page/Officialcoaches)
Tom Wright out of Peacehaven.

all the best