Noticing twist in my cue while feathering

[Terry Davidson]

thegasman:

It takes a lot of effort to post technique pictures on here as I would need two people and I'm here by myself. I would have to charge for that service.

However, if you go to youtube and do a search for 'Nic Barrow' and then within that search for 'grip' you will find 3 or 4 vidoes by Nic which explain the grip and how to get it in a lot of detail.

You could also watch the pros on youtube and pause the video when they show the grip of some of the pros. Shaun Murphy is an excellent example.

However, finding the correct grip with the correct wrist cock is not rocket science...just hold the cue exactly the same as you would hold a hammer to drive a nail, but with reduced pressure so the butt of the cue slides easily within the grip.

Terry

[nrage]

Nic's web site http://www.thesnookergym.com still has a free signup for the most basic "Red" level of his training course. I find the website a bit confusing as it loads each sub-menu under the previous one, but if you drill right down there are some videos on the grip in there.

[tommy_boi]

Maybe i am being dumb here or just not getting it, but i still don't understand what you mean by a wrist cock, it would be really great if someone could post a picture of this, cause at the moment i am not sure if it is a case of holding the cue and moving the hand/wrist outwards away from my body, or moving it inwards towards my body, please some help with this would be great.

[Terry Davidson]

it is cocked outwards from the body. see Nic Barrow's grip coaching videos on youtube

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

see this link (although it refers to golf)

http://www.leaderboard.com/GLOSSARY_WRISTCOCK

Terry

[nrage]

Maybe i am being dumb here or just not getting it, but i still don't understand what you mean by a wrist cock, it would be really great if someone could post a picture of this, cause at the moment i am not sure if it is a case of holding the cue and moving the hand/wrist outwards away from my body, or moving it inwards towards my body, please some help with this would be great.

Imagine a straight line down the inside of the forearm, down the thumb to the floor. If you hold your arm/hand in that position the line on the outside of the arm goes out at the wrist on an angle, this is what is meant by a wrist cock. Notice, that the grip where the cue lies inside the hand is directly in line with the forearm.

What a lot of people do differently is to have a straight line down the outside of the forearm, wrist and hand. If you try this you will notice the grip where the cue lies is inside the forearm.

[Terry Davidson]

I guess an even clearer description of what a 'wrist cock' is would be:

Hold your grip arm/hand out straight in front of you with the palm parallel to the floor and the fingers straight and pointed straight ahead. Now raise the tips of the fingers as much as you can by flexing the wrist joint upwards until you get as far as you can. Now look at the angle between the end of the forearm bone and the back of the hand and it should be around 60degrees or so and this would be called a 'maximum wrist cock'.

This is what I'm referring to when I say the wrist should be cocked, but perhaps not to the maximum described above but flexed away from the body as much as is comfortable and where the player can keep the wrist locked in one position as he delivers the cue.

Tommy_boi: Is that an explanation you can understand?

Terry

[snookergr]

great stuff from Terry and nrage once again !
just one comment here for "academic" purposes (topic related):
I used to have the cue slightly "inwards" and not exactly or even nearly under the forearm bone;
When I started to correct this -Thanks to terry and his patience- I introduced a slight wrist cock and noticed that I tended to tighten the grip more due to the fact (probably) that the slight "wrist cock" was deliberate and I also had to try and keep the same flex at all times plus keeping the wrist in the same position all the way through the action. This carried on for many days and it didn't "feel" right.
Lately it is much much better and I can see great results, I can now control the pressure more, it feels more natural and I am sticking to that correction as it gives me a great perspective of where the cue is and what it is doing at most of the times (!).

[Terry Davidson]

snookergr:

The real point in all of this is if a player can deliver the cue WITHOUT increasing the pressure of the grip until after the cueball has been struck then that is the correct way to go.

The real problem with this is virtually 99% of the players out there will try and increase the pressure of the grip during the delivery and usually it starts before the cueball is struck. To increase the pressure they start gripping with the last two fingers of the grip and unconciously will try and 'wrap' those last two fingers around the butt in order to get better purchase and this in turn will also mean they will turn the wrist joint inwards. This all happens without the player realizing it and as soon as that wrist joint starts to turn inwards of course the butt will go off the line of aim (in a right-hander) to the left and the tip will go to the right by a lesser degree.

At the time this is happening the brain will realize the cue is going off the line of aim and will try and correct this during the delivery but because the delivery is so dynamic they will over-compensate and will end up going through the cueball from right-to-left.

I noticed this in my own technique and it took me months trying to figure out what was happening and I didn't really get to the solution until I tried holding a shorter cue right at the end of the butt with the back two fingers right off the butt and curled up into my palm and all of a sudden I started delivering the cue a lot straighter but unfortunately I felt there was a loss of control of the cue so that wasn't the real and correct answer.

For me at least I've found it takes iron discipline to keep those back two fingers relaxed until after I've struck the cueball but it seems to be working and it's also cut down on the upper body movement I always had since there is now no need to try and correct the movement of the butt to the left.

I've also found that it's vital to keep very still during the backswing too as I still have a tendency to lift my head at the end of a longer backswing and this again will take the butt off-line.

But I'm getting it, slowly but surely and I have seen an improvement in my technique, even at my age

Terry

[Sidd]

Thank you Coach (Terry) ... You really are one gem of a person

[tommy_boi]

I guess an even clearer description of what a 'wrist cock' is would be:

Hold your grip arm/hand out straight in front of you with the palm parallel to the floor and the fingers straight and pointed straight ahead. Now raise the tips of the fingers as much as you can by flexing the wrist joint upwards until you get as far as you can. Now look at the angle between the end of the forearm bone and the back of the hand and it should be around 60degrees or so and this would be called a 'maximum wrist cock'.

This is what I'm referring to when I say the wrist should be cocked, but perhaps not to the maximum described above but flexed away from the body as much as is comfortable and where the player can keep the wrist locked in one position as he delivers the cue.

Tommy_boi: Is that an explanation you can understand?

Terry

I think i do get what you mean now, so you cock the wrist outwards away from your body while in the address position, and not inwards towards the body, is that what you mean, if i could see a video or a picture that would be great, just to make sure i am understanding this correct.

[Terry Davidson]

tommy_boi:

That is correct and if you want to see a picture of a good wrist cock go to youtube.com and if you are not a member already then set up an login/ID and then do a search with 'snooker' and then the name of ANY of the top pros (Ronnie O'Sullivan or John Higgins are excellent examples) and then when the BBC camera is showing the grip hand just hit 'pause' and have a good look at them with their wrist joints turned outwards from their body in the address position, at the end of the backswing (where it's less obvious) and then through to the final delivery.

The only top player I can think of who has less of a wrist cock is Stephen Hendry but he still has one but not as obvious as the other top pros.

(I don't have any pictures as it takes two people to do them and I'm here by myself)

Terry

[sydneygeorge]

I finally get it !!!

Imagine a straight line down the inside of the forearm, down the thumb to the floor. If you hold your arm/hand in that position the line on the outside of the arm goes out at the wrist on an angle, this is what is meant by a wrist cock. Notice, that the grip where the cue lies inside the hand is directly in line with the forearm.

What a lot of people do differently is to have a straight line down the outside of the forearm, wrist and hand. If you try this you will notice the grip where the cue lies is inside the forearm.

Perfect description, thank you, can't wait to get to the table.