Does 2 wrongs make a right?

[alabadi]

Hi All

i'm putting this out there to see if anyone else has had a similar problem.

i have a problem with what my eyes see to what my brain is telling me when it comes to aiming, i have for a long time been slightly aiming off centre cueball to the right probably half a tip or less. obviously because off this error although to my eyes its dead centre my brain realising it isn't so on my forward stroke my brain tries to compensate by making me cue to the left which resulted in me actually hitting centre cueball.

After a coaching session a coach noticed that i don't cue centre and devised certain routines to help me correct it, after extensive practice i now see the centre of the white correctly however because of the the conpensation my brain was putting in i now cue the white slightly left, which has caused me problems and i think it has been the reason my game has deteriated so much in recent months.

i'm not sure if in time this will sort itself out or not, but its been 4-5 months now and my game has not improved at all, in fact i am worse now than i was a year ago. i practice 10-12 hours a week and play another 4 hours.

should i have just kept to what i was doing?

Does 2 wrongs make a right ?

i can't undo it now, so unless i purposfully aim slightly right i am cueing across the white which causes unwanted side.

what can i do to correct this? any help please, the frustration is killing me

regards

[nrage]

.. sorry, double post (web site was taking ages) .. this one erased and 2nd one added to

[nrage]

IMO doing something wrong and compensating all the time, as you were doing, makes everything harder. Yes, re-learning may be hard and take a while, but the place you will eventually reach will be a place where you can do more with less effort. In other words, going back to the old system is eventually self-limiting, and you will be lowering the ceiling of your potential.

The fact that you're now aiming center and hitting left indicates a cueing fault. This is something you've always been doing, so when you used to aim tright, and strike center, you were doing it from a slight angle. This angle probably made no difference in many cases, but on power shots or when striking down on the white it will cause unwanted side or for the white to head off in slightly the wrong line/direction.

I believe you will play a lot better if/when you correct the cueing across the ball. I would examine the arm/elbow/grip and also the chest/chin contact points, and make minor adjustments until you can cue directly to the center of the white and "feel" it, and consequently "feel" when you cue across it.

[Terry Davidson]

I answered your thread at thesnooker gym but again...as nrage says...in order to line up to centre-ball and then hit to the left you MUST BE MOVING THE UPPER BODY in order to change the line of aim of the cue and you're likely doing this during the delivery. This is probably the absolute worst thing you can do.

Get a camera and record yourself and then use Kinovea to look at yourself frame-by-frame and watch your head and upper body and hips too as any or all of them will be moving

Terry

[the legend]

So if i understand correctly your now a worse player than before you had coaching.This is a common problem at some stage people will realise what a waste of time coaching is unless your already a very good player struggling with confidence issues.

[alabadi]

to answer your question, i do feel that i am playing at the same level or worse as a year ago in terms of scoring. i recorded my highest break about 8-9 months ago.
saying this i feel i am a better tactican, my shot selection has improved also other aspects are better. I don't think that the coaching made me worse though, the coach really worked on cetain areas i needed to improve , this meant i needed to change certain things in my game, and as nrage said it takes time when changes are introduced to get better.

I do feel that some changes impact on other aspects too almost like a ripple effect, so that again could have an effect on progress.

back to coaching again, its true different coaches will have different ways of doing things so how quick improvement can be made depends on how well the coach can analyse which part of the players game will bring him/her most improvement, but i do think that the player too must be willing to work hard, patient and practice what the coach has suggested.

with me i am at the age where i cannot afford to wait years before i get to a good standard and yet can't afford to pay a coach for all the hours i need, its a double edge sword.

i appreciate all the comments, they do help, i have used loads of information in this forum and others and its great to know that other player have the same problems. the coaches give good advice and its invaluable too.

regards

[alabadi]

I am not sure if i am moving my shoulder as suggested in another thread also i have seen a youtube clip with Terry Griffiths working with a student on this issue.

the hips thing mentioned by Terry Davidson in the snooker gym forum sounds interesting. I have taken a video of my cueing arm just to see if there is movement, its a side on shot so may not be the best angle to judge if i move laterally however i have looked at it closely and cannot detect any movement that might cause cueing across the ball. i'll include the link below so anyone can comment on it. i will try and get a video of my hips too to check that too.

i would appreciate any feedback

http://youtu.be/FR6dno7PGUM

regards

[DandyA]

http://youtu.be/FR6dno7PGUM

clicking the link says "this video is private" ... I guess you need to change it to public so we can see it ...

[Terry Davidson]

I can't see the video either. But think about it...if in the address position you are lining up to centre-ball then during the delivery you must be moving SOMETHING in order to move the tip of the cue to the left a little bit.

Now ask yourself (and video yourself too) what part of my body am I moving in order to take that tip off the line of aim? Although it's usually some upper body movement it's also very small hip movement which in your case would be towards the RIGHT if the tip is going towards the left.

Try this exercise yourself...place the cueball anywhere on the table where you have a hand-on-the-table shot and get into the address position with your tip right at the cueball. Now watch the tip very closely and just move your hips slightly to the right and then slightly to the left and watch what happens to the tip on the cueball, it will move ever so slightly in the opposite direction.

Moving the hips in this manner is how some players adjust their aim when they are down on the shot and feel they aren't lined up correctly. I've noticed myself doing it from time to time and it's definitely NOT the thing to do. But on an easy shot most players (being lazy like myself) will just shift the hips to alter the aim and then wonder why they have missed such an easy shot.

Terry

[alabadi]

sorry about that i put it in the wrong category, i meant to put it as unlisted where them with the link could view it.

i have sorted it now

regards

[alabadi]

sorry about that i put it in the wrong category, i meant to put it as unlisted where them with the link could view it.

i have sorted it now

regards

[CoachGavin]

By the sound of it I have exactly the same fault. I cue on the right hand side of the white but then as I pull the cue back I pull the butt away from the body which brings the tip online and i can pot ok. I know this is two wrongs to make a right so to improve I have tried to fix it. The key is to change one thing at a time, knowing that until both faults are fixed you will not see improvement. I found my walk in needed work to ensure I lined up centre of white properly. I had to do a lot of work just getting the cue on the line of aim. Then I had to stop pulling the butt away from my body and practice delivering the cue straight. Then you will have the two rights :0)

[CoachGavin]

"So if i understand correctly your now a worse player than before you had coaching.This is a common problem at some stage people will realise what a waste of time coaching is unless your already a very good player struggling with confidence issues."


I'm guessing you are not a big fan of coaching :0)

[CoachGavin]

"So if i understand correctly your now a worse player than before you had coaching.This is a common problem at some stage people will realise what a waste of time coaching is unless your already a very good player struggling with confidence issues."


I'm guessing you are not a big fan of coaching :0)

[alabadi]

I think i have found out the problem. today i was practicing and took a video from behind of my cueing arm, i watched it back in slow motion and found that on delivery my arm doesnt stay straight. i.e it moves to the left.

i will post a link to the video and hopefully someone who has had a sililar problem can help me solve this problem.

http://youtu.be/Ww4UC1IfUvo

regards