Cueing Through the Ball

[Particle Physics]

When top or screw is required, not forgetting running side, the tip must go through the ball and finish ahead of the initial position of the ball. Assuming equipment and skill levels are constant, two factors are at work, the force of the cue (a combination of the weight of the cue multiplied by the velocity of the cue at impact and continuing contact), the energy transfer in other words, and the distance travelled through the ball. Ultimate spin would appear to be an optimal combination of force and travel. I've cued slowly and got right through the ball which leads to a fair bit of spin. I've cued with more force but not travelled as far through and got less spin than expected. How does one cue long through the ball and get the force on?

The other thing I wondered about, as a bit of a beginner, is how players work on 'through the ball' in practice. Some folk have told me to cue to the point required beyond the ball and set up for that end point. This means setting up with a fairly short bridge to ball distance and being long in the butt section with the cue hand at 90 degrees or more to the cue. Is this a good thing to do? Yet other folk have suggested focusing on the impact on the cue ball face itself, and making the follow through a fixed amount, but the force a variable amount. This seems ok if there's plenty of cueing space, but not so good for shots where the cue and object ball are close together.

Does anyone have any useful tips, pointers, and/or videos that may be of use for improving the generation and control of spin please?

Cheers, Particle.

[Terry Davidson]

particle:

This is not rocket science here and you just may be over-thinking this a bit.

In order to impart ANY type of power to the cueball the player must ACCELERATE THROUGH the cueball, which is the same for any ball sport like golf, tennis, cricket batting, etc (but not lacrosse by the way as the player doesn't hit the ball).

The easiest way I've found to teach this to my beginner student is to tell them to imagine they are hitting the OBJECT ball with the tip of their cue even though it might be 3-6ft away. Now, of course, this shouldn't be tried when the balls are only 6" or less apart because then the player should shorten his cue length beyond his bridge and choke up on the cue.

Just remember...KEEP THE ACCELERATION GOING THROUGH AND BEYOND THE CUEBALL or until you drop your elbow and the grip hand hits the chest. If you do this for every normal shot you will get a lot of power into the cueball.

Terry

[Particle Physics]

particle:

This is not rocket science here and you just may be over-thinking this a bit.

In order to impart ANY type of power to the cueball the player must ACCELERATE THROUGH the cueball, which is the same for any ball sport like golf, tennis, cricket batting, etc (but not lacrosse by the way as the player doesn't hit the ball).

The easiest way I've found to teach this to my beginner student is to tell them to imagine they are hitting the OBJECT ball with the tip of their cue even though it might be 3-6ft away. Now, of course, this shouldn't be tried when the balls are only 6" or less apart because then the player should shorten his cue length beyond his bridge and choke up on the cue.

Just remember...KEEP THE ACCELERATION GOING THROUGH AND BEYOND THE CUEBALL or until you drop your elbow and the grip hand hits the chest. If you do this for every normal shot you will get a lot of power into the cueball.

Terry

Thanks Terry.

[Chris Bedford]

Cueing Through the Ball

Actually if the object ball is 6 inches away although normally you would as you say shorten your cue action in order not to foul but if your practising and experimenting its good 10 mon practice to try and deliberately cue to hit it. This was one of Nic Barrows excercise's just so you get a feel at the back end of the cue how far to push it through. Your be surprised how difficult it is to actually hit both balls at the same time!

[nrage]

Another novel from me, sorry..

When top or screw is required, not forgetting running side, the tip must go through the ball and finish ahead of the initial position of the ball. Assuming equipment and skill levels are constant, two factors are at work, the force of the cue (a combination of the weight of the cue multiplied by the velocity of the cue at impact and continuing contact), the energy transfer in other words, and the distance travelled through the ball. Ultimate spin would appear to be an optimal combination of force and travel. I've cued slowly and got right through the ball which leads to a fair bit of spin. I've cued with more force but not travelled as far through and got less spin than expected. How does one cue long through the ball and get the force on?

To understand what is happening, you first need to really understand what "top spin" really is. Top spin is what occurs when a naturally rolling white hits an object ball. The impact with the object ball transfers all the white balls forward momentum (speed) to the object ball (some energy is lost as sound, and/or to friction).. but, the white ball still has most of it's rotational energy (spin), so immediately after impact it is basically spinning forward on the spot, until friction causes it to start rolling again.

Next thing to realise, is that when you hit the white it does not immediately "roll", instead it slides. The distance it slides is based on how hard you hit it, and whether you hit the top of the white. As it slides friction converts forward momentum into forward rotation, and at a certain point the white starts to roll naturally. Hitting the top of the white means you impart some forward rotational energy to the white to start with, meaning it takes less time to start rolling.

So, if you hit it hard it will slide, if you hit it hard with top it still slides but for a shorter distance. And if the distance between the white and object ball is too short you will hit it while the white is still sliding and thus get less top spin. Maximum top spin for any given shot is hitting the white as high as possible, and as hard as possible while still giving it time to start rolling naturally.

The amount of top spin is limited by the forward speed of the white because (I believe) it is impossible to make the white spin faster than it's rolling with the cue, it will only spin faster than it's rolling after impact with an object ball, and only briefly. There have been experiments to measure this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WzyxhCl0vs&feature=plcp

You might not agree this is a 100% fair test, but I would ignore it as a possibility unless you can personally do it. :P

Coming back to your original Q. To apply maximum top spin you need to accelerate through the white, as Terry says, in order to impart as much forward rotation on the ball as possible. Over long distances you can ignore most of what I've said above, but over short distances you need to practice and get a feel for how long it takes the white to start rolling with various power shots.

The other thing I wondered about, as a bit of a beginner, is how players work on 'through the ball' in practice. Some folk have told me to cue to the point required beyond the ball and set up for that end point. This means setting up with a fairly short bridge to ball distance and being long in the butt section with the cue hand at 90 degrees or more to the cue. Is this a good thing to do? Yet other folk have suggested focusing on the impact on the cue ball face itself, and making the follow through a fixed amount, but the force a variable amount. This seems ok if there's plenty of cueing space, but not so good for shots where the cue and object ball are close together.

Does anyone have any useful tips, pointers, and/or videos that may be of use for improving the generation and control of spin please?

I practiced cueing through the ball with a short blue to middle across the table. A nice easy pot, and either straight on, or slightly off straight shots (for screw back practice). Then I play the blue and concentrate on the motion of the cue, after finding the line of aim and getting down I ignore the white and just push the cue right through until my hand hits my chest and cannot go any further. The key is to stop yourself anticipating the impact with either the white or your chest and then unconsciously braking the cue in response. Many people decelerate unconsciously and this is one reason why they get less screw/top etc.

However, the more common problem is actually where they're striking the ball, so it's worth practicing the same shot but instead focus completely on the contact point with the white. If you have a marked white you can sometimes "see" chalk marks left over from the impact and this can give you feed back as to where you've struck the white. Many people don't strike low enough on screw, and similarly could strike higher on top spin shots. The reason they don't is because in the past they have and miscued and so have unconsciously trained the brain to avoid it.

The reason for the miscue was perhaps not enough chalk, or more likely not accelerating through the white. You can hit both lower and higher on the ball if you cue right through it properly, "stopping on the shot" or otherwise decelerating typically causes the tip to dip or rise and it's this which causes the miscue. Cueing through the ball keeps the cue driving through without any up/down movement and this prevents the miscue, most people have a bit of movement once the hand hits the chest but this is normal and fine as by this time the white should be well away from the tip of the cue.

[vmax4steve]

The link that nrage has posted shows how to get the cue ball to run thru further when playing a shot that is close to the cue ball.
What the bloke is doing when successfully not moving the strip of sandpaper is actually striking upwards at the cue ball because the tip of the cue is higher than the butt of the cue due to striking the cue ball higher. Striking it in the place one normally would for longer distance topspin shots makes the cue ball dig into the cloth a little and slides before the natural forward momentum gives the cue ball topspin.
To play a topspin shot that is only a few inches away from the cue ball the butt of the cue must be as level as possible to the side cushion so that when striking the uppermost level of the cue ball the cue is actually pointing upwards slightly which stops the cue ball digging in to the cloth and sliding for the short distance that it usually does. Holding the butt higher would mean striking down making the cue ball not only dig into the cloth but bounce off the bed of the table.
This topspin shot can be played to it's zenith when the butt of the cue is actually inside the cushion enabling a player to drop the butt close to the bed of the table and strike upwards without having to strike so high on the cue ball, maximising contact and lessening the probability of a miscue. I do this whenever I play a power topspin shot where the butt is inside the cushion as it stops the cue ball bouncing and gives greater topspin. I do this whenever I need to play a topspin shot where the cue ball and object ball are only a few inches apart as the cue ball carries topspin immediately without sliding first and runs thru further. I'm willing to bet that an awful lot of players do this without even realising it.
It's purely to do with strikng upwards, nothing magic about it and is a nice shot to have in your reportoire.

[CoachGavin]

Just try and keep the tip in contact with the white for as long as possible. The easiest way to do this is start your delivery slowly and build up the pace so you accelerate through the white. Try and 'feel' the shot.

[DandyA]

at my high break 31 level, I'm also trying to really concentrate on delivering the cue through the cueball like an arrow, dead straight on both my chosen horizontal and vertical plane ...

poor left/right control obviously causes problems but I'm getting a lot more success by concentrating on up/down too ... say I have to cue at 20 degrees down due to cushion or even just cos I want to ... keeping the cue exactly on that line (whatever it is) really seems to help ...