Open or Closed Grip?

[Particle Physics]

I've tried two grips recently. The first is more open, with a closed V, and more open back fingers, the pad of the third finger being underneath the cue and the little finger pad just touching the cue. The second grip has more closed back fingers wrapped around the cue, with the cue resting on the middle phalanxes of the second and third fingers, and the little finger pad underneath the cue, helping to carry it a wee bit. I think this is the kind of grip adopted by Hendry et al.

The advantage of the first grip include no need for elbow drop on most shots due to the loose nature of the back fingers. However, it is also less stable, and with meaty shots, the cue is liable to vibrate a bit, wobble and overall, the contact on the white isn't as crisp. On closure, the fingers aren't wrapped around the cue but return (after feathering) to their pre-shot position.

The second grip leads to firmer shots, the object ball travels better, doesn't skid and it feels nicer too, like you've actually struck something. I'm going to get a training ball to see if the white is also skidding less with the first grip compared to the second grip. The disadvantage of the second grip is that for a lot of shots, the hand must be opened and feathered a lot more than the first grip, and the fingers have to be closed on the forestroke unlike the first grip. For a lot of spin shots, elbow drop is also necessary, which adds another factor, that can go wrong.

I'm at a stage now (3 months in), where I have to begin to set my technique, cue action being one part. Coaches advise adopting the same routine for every shot, so I guess I have to choose a grip for the future. What are you're experiences, any ideas gents?

[nrage]

It is interesting that you say the first grip results in wobble etc.. when I play shots with my cue, and only forefinger and thumb tips in contact as seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD659eZ054I&feature=plcp

I don't feel any more wobble/movement from the cue, than I do when I play with a completely closed grip... it just plows solidly through the ball regardless. I mean, the cue weighs a lot more than the white ball so the white should have little effect on the cue I believe.

Odd.

Are you sure the forefinger/thumb grip is completely closed with no room for the cue to roll around inside? That's the only way I can imagine you might get some sort of wobble, and only if you played with a bit of side, top or bottom. Striking center shouldn't wobble the cue even if the cue is being held in a very relaxed O with space all round.

[Particle Physics]

It is interesting that you say the first grip results in wobble etc.. when I play shots with my cue, and only forefinger and thumb tips in contact as seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD659eZ054I&feature=plcp

I don't feel any more wobble/movement from the cue, than I do when I play with a completely closed grip... it just plows solidly through the ball regardless. I mean, the cue weighs a lot more than the white ball so the white should have little effect on the cue I believe.

Odd.

Are you sure the forefinger/thumb grip is completely closed with no room for the cue to roll around inside? That's the only way I can imagine you might get some sort of wobble, and only if you played with a bit of side, top or bottom. Striking center shouldn't wobble the cue even if the cue is being held in a very relaxed O with space all round.

Afternoon Nrage. Yeah, my cue is 19 1/4oz, so you'd imagine that much mass could hit the cue ball without wobble. But a firmer grip does strike the cue ball firmer to me. I've got the ring completely closed on both grips. Maybe it's because I'm 6 foot and quite skinny (10 1/2 stones), with piano player like fingers?

[Terry Davidson]

particle:

Pick a grip...any grip at all that feels most comfortable to you. The only important thing about any grip (all the pros have slightly different grips but all of them pot consistently) is that YOU DO NOT CHANGE THE GRIP PRESSURE AT ALL UNTIL AFTER YOU STRIKE THE CUEBALL!!! Gripping tighter during the delivery WILL take the butt off-line and apply unintentional side along with striking right-to-left if you are a right-hander.

There is no ONE correct grip and each player has to experiment a bit and find the grip which will allow him to do TWO important things, i.e. - 1. Allows the grip to maintain constant pressure from the backswing to the end of the deliver; and, 2. Aids in the player being able to drive though the cueball consistently or in other words accelerate through the cueball at time of strike.

In addition to this, and just as important, is the grip must be comfortable for the player and something he can copy every time he steps up to the table. All the rest of it is just noise, but for me I've found my ideal grip is the one I teach with forefinger and thumb with the back 2 or 3 fingers just barely touching the butt and then concentrating on keeping the back finger pressure constant through the entire delivery so I'm not tempted to turn the wrist inwards by gripping the butt with the back 2 fingers on delivery

Terry

[scottishplayer]

Pick the cue up off the table with the grip hand, holding it at the butt end tight enough so it doesn't fall on the floor and there's your grip....simple! Forget all the tightening after the strike mumbo jumbo and such like, it only complicates something that's not complicated! You can then play without ever having to give it another thought!

[Terry Davidson]

Hah!!! 'mumbo jumbo' indeed. Must be nice to get it right without any playing around, but unfortunately a lot of other players are not as lucky as you seem to be

Terry

[cazmac1]

For want of a better word the first grip you described as closed.

[Particle Physics]

Hah!!! 'mumbo jumbo' indeed. Must be nice to get it right without any playing around, but unfortunately a lot of other players are not as lucky as you seem to be

Terry

Cheers Terry!

[throtts]

Pick the cue up off the table with the grip hand, holding it at the butt end tight enough so it doesn't fall on the floor and there's your grip....simple! !

No, my grip would let the cue drop on your above example. Mine ( mainly index finger and part middle finger with thumb dropping ) is looser and would let the shaft just drop back on the table..

I think its what ones comfortable with, with one not "gripping" the cue through tension.

[Particle Physics]

No, my grip would let the cue drop on your above example. Mine ( mainly index finger and part middle finger with thumb dropping ) is looser and would let the shaft just drop back on the table..

I think its what ones comfortable with, with one not "gripping" the cue through tension.

Did Steve Davis advise a looser grip at the front, with a pound coin fitting between V and cue?

[nrage]

Did Steve Davis advise a looser grip at the front, with a pound coin fitting between V and cue?

Never heard/read that myself.

[Terry Davidson]

I believe what particle is referring to is a statement on Steve's blog which used to be on MySpace. In there he said (2 years ago now) that he was experimenting with the old Alex Higgin's grip which used the back 3 fingers and had the forefinger hanging straight down.

Davis said in order to 'get' this grip he held a piece of chalk between his straight forefinger and thumb although perhaps he modified that to something a little smaller as a piece of chalk would be pretty bulky (I tried it and kept dropping the chalk)

Steve did feel he was playing better with this grip and used it a couple of seasons ago when he beat Higgins in the World Champs

Terry

[MattB147]

Hi. I don't believe there is an exact grip to be used for every player. I have played for 26 years and coached for 10.

I believe, like Terry that the most important thing is that the player must feel comfortable with the grip and the pressure on the cue should not change (significantly) until the striking of the cue ball. Stephen Hendry's pressure on the cue on most shot particularly in break building doesn't even change after striking the cue ball.

I personally use a grip which is very popular amongst many of the pro's and top amateur's. It's very basically this;

Pick up your cue from the table as if you are going to hit someone with it (that came from a Steve Davis coaching book - TRUE). Then relax the grip. The thumb, index finger and middle finger is somewhere between firm and relaxed. The last two fingers rest on the cue providing stability and enabling the player to open the hand and use a more wristy action to gain more action/power on the cue ball.

Pro's vs con's? Wristy action can promote inaccuracy although more action/power. More solid firm grip can be more accurate although restrictive in terms of movement of cue ball.

MattB