cant find the centre of the white. please help

[craigian]

i am a right handed player, right eye dominant. highest break 65. 18years old.
my practice partner tells me that i line up the shot and address the white ball about half a tip to the left. to me it looks like centre but when i leave the tip there and bring my head up i can see that my tip is in fact to the left of centre.

if i line up to a spotted white with the red spot at the centre of the white it looks like the red spot on the white is to the right of centre.

i would appreciate anyones advice greatly, thanks

[nrage]

If you have a break of 65 despite this flaw then you've probably learned to compensate for the off center striking, which will likely mean it will be difficult to correct and will mean you get worse before you get better. So, if you're serious about improving then it will be a bit of hard graft, but definitely possible I would expect.

So, from the sound of things you have a sighting issue likely cause by your head position, bridge hand position, or a combination of these things. I don't like the idea of finding the "dominant" eye and simply putting the cue under that, instead I would recommend trying to find the best position for your eyes by testing various positions and alignments (sometimes a slight turn of the head is enough).

So, step #1 pick a pocket and use the edge of the leather as an exact line of aim/spot to aim at. Get down into your stance aiming at this spot. Have your practice partner line the spotted white up exactly center ball for you.

Step #2 experiment. Close first one eye, and then the other. Does the cue look lined up with either eye by themselves? Does one eye look better than the other?

If you find one eye looks better than the other then you have just discovered which eye you have been using dominantly when getting down on the shot and picking a head position etc. It is this eye which is on, or closer to the line of aim than the other. It is this eye which is getting a better view of reality and it's this eye we need to move the other eye closer to.

If neither eye looks right don't worry because you've probably just got each eye on either side of the line of aim and therefore neither is in the perfect position by itself. Always remember that you don't aim with just one eye, you aim with both and you're trying to find the position which is best for the combination of both eyes.

In either case, you want to start by turning the head slightly left or right and seeing what effect this has on what you're "seeing". When you turn the head, make sure you keep it upright with both eyes on a horizontal line, neither lower/higher than the other. Turning the head actually moves both eyes slightly closer to the center/line of aim and may be all you need to get the perfect view. Often placing the left cheek on the bridge arm shoulder (right hander) turns the head into a better position, so try that.

If the head turn doesn't help, then try moving the head sideways by placing the cue on either side of the chin. Move the cue fractions and move the whole cue (don't start cueing across the line of the shot). You might find it easier if your practice partner holds the cue in place on the table and you move your head.

As you move your head try to find the position which looks "right", try closing each eye in turn and comparing the view until you find the position where with both eyes open it just looks "right".

For me personally the cue should sit slightly to the left of my chin (right-hander) which in turn means I prefer a less square stance than recommended. A square stance usually puts the cue center chin or to the right (right-hander) whereas a more side on stance will give more room around the chest to place the cue center to left of the chin.

So, once you find your ideal head position it may require a stance alteration to make it comfortable.

Last, but not least, practice walking into your new stance/position repeatedly until it becomes natural. This is the part which takes time, and which will vanish under pressure until you have it well and truly drilled in.

Best of luck.

[Terry Davidson]

All good advice from nrage. Here's one or two other items you can try.

First of all, if you can 'see' the centre of the white with your head up then nrage is definitely right and it's your set-up causing you to pick a spot off-centre on the white when you get down into the shot.

Try placing the cue behind the white centre before you get down into the address position and don't let the cue move as you get down. Take up the address position and DO NOT adjust the hips to either side (in your case it would be moving the hip very slightly to the right which will take the tipo of the cue to the left a bit).

The other thing you can try is to get into the address position normally and then raise your head off the cue sufficiently so you can 'see' the centre of the white and actually cue from that position for awhile and then drop your chin straight down on the cue and see if you are either adjusting your hips or else moving the grip hand away from your body. Do this with the tip of the cue against the cueball and watch it on the cueball and see if it moves. If it does, I would again suspect you are moving the hips when you get into the address position.

Terry

[frazz]

the reason for this is where you are aligning the cue to your chin, your slightly off where you should be for you to see the middle while you are on the shot. however i dont think its too much of a problem, john higgins cues slightly off and naturally cues across the ball a touch to hit the middle and if you ask graham dott centre ball doesnt exist, he picks a side to put on the white every shot even if its a straight long blue, he would rather hit to a side and hit there than play for middle and hit unintentional side

[johno]

Frazz, thats interesting what you say about graham, has he always played this way and how does he decide what
side to aim on different pots. So to get this right he does not cue across the white but picks a spot either
left or right of the middle and and commits to this (with straight cueing of course) ?

[frazz]

yeah pretty much, he'd rather know what way the white is gonna throw off than have it throw unexpectedly. he doesnt have a set method as to what side he uses on certain shots, he just picks it as he plays and feels. to quote what he told one of my mates in the club when asked about hitting middle ball he replied "it doesnt exist"

[renniwevarb]

Well I have a mate at the club that addresses the cueball with 1 tip size to the right of the center. When he delivers the cue, it goes back and hits the center of the white.

The amazing thing is when I asked him if he knew he was doing that, he said yes! He says that when he aims center he just can't pot! And he is a very good potter!

[nrage]

yeah pretty much, he'd rather know what way the white is gonna throw off than have it throw unexpectedly. he doesnt have a set method as to what side he uses on certain shots, he just picks it as he plays and feels. to quote what he told one of my mates in the club when asked about hitting middle ball he replied "it doesnt exist"

Technically true I suppose. If you think about the /exact/ middle being the smallest imaginable slice of the white right in the middle, the chances of actually hitting that with the /exact/ middle of the cue tip are almost zero. But, luckily you don't have to actually do that, all you have to do is strike somewhere inside a 1/2 tip width slice of the center of the white with a 1/2 tip width slice of the center of the tip, more or less, to see no noticeable throw/side effect for shots of average power/distance.

I think anyone who starts to compensate for a flaw in cue action - even a pro, is ultimately going to find that on some days things just "don't work", especially if they are tired at the end of a long match or similar. Unless you're actually already a pro, and making a living with your current cue action (therefore don't want to risk changes) you should look at fixing the actual flaw, not compensating for it. Unless of course you're happy with your current level of ability/consistency, in which case just carry on as you are

[Particle Physics]

Technically true I suppose. If you think about the /exact/ middle being the smallest imaginable slice of the white right in the middle, the chances of actually hitting that with the /exact/ middle of the cue tip are almost zero. But, luckily you don't have to actually do that, all you have to do is strike somewhere inside a 1/2 tip width slice of the center of the white with a 1/2 tip width slice of the center of the tip, more or less, to see no noticeable throw/side effect for shots of average power/distance.

I think anyone who starts to compensate for a flaw in cue action - even a pro, is ultimately going to find that on some days things just "don't work", especially if they are tired at the end of a long match or similar. Unless you're actually already a pro, and making a living with your current cue action (therefore don't want to risk changes) you should look at fixing the actual flaw, not compensating for it. Unless of course you're happy with your current level of ability/consistency, in which case just carry on as you are

The middle or centre does not exist, even if it's down to one Higgs Boson or the gap between two particles. However, for practical purposes, the 'operational' middle does exist, and it can be seen by the eye and it can be hit - I'm talking about a tolerance of 1/10th of a mm here. The human eye is capable of deciphering to this tolerance an object as far away as the cue ball.

As for Dott putting side on every shot. If this is true, he's daft. He's making 'middle ball' shots harder for no gain. And side may well detrimentally affect his position after a pot, so what's the point of doing that? The great thing about faster cloths is that we don't need to play side to get good position. This is up there with Ebdon's mushroom tip....................

[Particle Physics]

Technically true I suppose. If you think about the /exact/ middle being the smallest imaginable slice of the white right in the middle, the chances of actually hitting that with the /exact/ middle of the cue tip are almost zero. But, luckily you don't have to actually do that, all you have to do is strike somewhere inside a 1/2 tip width slice of the center of the white with a 1/2 tip width slice of the center of the tip, more or less, to see no noticeable throw/side effect for shots of average power/distance.

I think anyone who starts to compensate for a flaw in cue action - even a pro, is ultimately going to find that on some days things just "don't work", especially if they are tired at the end of a long match or similar. Unless you're actually already a pro, and making a living with your current cue action (therefore don't want to risk changes) you should look at fixing the actual flaw, not compensating for it. Unless of course you're happy with your current level of ability/consistency, in which case just carry on as you are

The middle or centre does not exist, even if it's down to one Higgs Boson or the gap between two particles. However, for practical purposes, the 'operational' middle does exist, and it can be seen by the eye and it can be hit - I'm talking about a tolerance of 1/10th of a mm here. The human eye is capable of deciphering to this tolerance an object as far away as the cue ball.

As for Dott putting side on every shot. If this is true, he's daft. He's making 'middle ball' shots harder for no gain. And side may well detrimentally affect his position after a pot, so what's the point of doing that? The great thing about faster cloths is that we don't need to play side to get good position. This is up there with Ebdon's mushroom tip....................

[Giggity1984]

Well I have a mate at the club that addresses the cueball with 1 tip size to the right of the center. When he delivers the cue, it goes back and hits the center of the white.

The amazing thing is when I asked him if he knew he was doing that, he said yes! He says that when he aims center he just can't pot! And he is a very good potter!

Jamie Cope's initial address is bottom right of the white and he comes back to the centre on striking the cue ball.

[Giggity1984]

The middle or centre does not exist, even if it's down to one Higgs Boson or the gap between two particles. However, for practical purposes, the 'operational' middle does exist, and it can be seen by the eye and it can be hit - I'm talking about a tolerance of 1/10th of a mm here. The human eye is capable of deciphering to this tolerance an object as far away as the cue ball.

Living up to your TSF name!!!!!! Very scientific.... never thought I'd see a Higgs Boson mentioned on a snooker forum! lol

[Particle Physics]

Living up to your TSF name!!!!!! Very scientific.... never thought I'd see a Higgs Boson mentioned on a snooker forum! lol

I could have mentioned other particles but folk would have become lost! Great that they found the Higgs, hope he gets the big gong for it. I should have named myself Dr. Bob or something on TSF.

[Particle Physics]

If players are stuck they can do worse than adopt Jimmy White's clockface approach. Dip the cue to the very bottom of the cue ball, raise it up to the desired height, and you should be pretty central, certainly within half a tip or less that nrage wisely suggests.

[johno]

I'm looking forward to Terry's (or Nic Barrow's) views on this....especially Dott's aiming for pots. I was always
told hit centre ball whenever possible and try to keep it nice and simple