Eye Dominance, Sighting and the Cue

[alabadi]

I think that the suggestion by DandyA is a good idea, and one that i will definatelly try, ill have to wait till i get home though, i'm on holiday in Egypt, havent found a snooker hall in Cairo yet, i'm really missing playing its been a week now.

anyway back to the original point, i have changed the cue position under my chin quite a bit in recent months. originally i use to have it under my left eye which is my dominant eye, however its moved accross to the right side of my chin, i'm not sure why however it feels more comfortable there.

i'll have to do the test and check if this is the optimum position for me, because i think it is important for me to know once and for all which is the best position for me.

then i can concentrate on my technique rather than worrying about cue position

Alabbadi

[Particle Physics]

[QUOTE=alabadi;657915]I think that the suggestion by DandyA is a good idea, and one that i will definatelly try, ill have to wait till i get home though, i'm on holiday in Egypt, havent found a snooker hall in Cairo yet, i'm really missing playing its been a week now.

Happy hols mate, hope you're having a good one! Told you this would happen. lol

[DandyA]

I think that the suggestion by DandyA is a good idea, and one that i will definatelly try, ill have to wait till i get home though, i'm on holiday in Egypt, havent found a snooker hall in Cairo yet, i'm really missing playing its been a week now.
Alabbadi

yeah, I think so too ... I was genuinely surprised, in the setup I described, how clearly I could see that depending where my head was, the line of aim looked left, right or dead centre ...

to save peeps having to check back thru the thread, here's my earlier posting we're talking about ...

I tried the following on the pub pool table tonight ...

cue butt resting on rail ... cue tip resting on a chalk ... cue pointing down the centre of the table ... cue ball nearly touching the cue tip ... object ball on the far cushion lined up perfectly straight ... I stood back and checked from both cue end and object ball end that everything was dead straight and the cue tip was dead centre of the cue ball ...

then I put my head above the cue as if I was holding the cue (I wasn't) and moved my head left and right to see what happens ... it's interesting - the shot doesn't look lined up dead straight apart from one position - in my case, with the cue just slightly right of centre chin ...

I know others have suggested this method by aiming a cue ball at the edge of a pocket leather but that's not what we ever play - I think my way is better because I'm looking at cueball onto object ball which is what the game is all about ...

thinking afterwards, it might be worth putting the cue butt on a chalk on the rail to give a more realistic height but I wouldn't think that would change the result ... and I could also try the object ball at different distances to the cue ball although I doubt that will make any difference - if it looks straight at the 15 inches or so I could get on a pool table, surely it will look straight at longer distances ...

so, as far as I am concerned, that proves where my sighting is best ... the bad news is that's where I normally sight anyway so it must be poor and inaccurate delivery causing me to miss sitters having said that, with my new found sighting confidence, I wasn't half potting some crackers tonight

[Terry Davidson]

Usually, one very simple way to tell which eye you are using for sighting (and it might not be the dominant eye by the way) is to line up a straight blue and then close first one eye and then the other. From one of the eyes the cue will look perfectly aligned on the line of aim and from the other it will look to be to the side.

For me (right-handed, cue on centre-chin, but head turned slightly right) I know I sight with the left eye as it's the only one I can see clearly out of although before my eye surgery my sighting eye was always my right eye. If I close the right eye and look along the cue to cueball, object ball and pocket it looks perfectly aligned. If I close the left eye I am looking from the side of the cue and I can't tell where it's aimed at all.

I've never been even-eyed so I don't know what those lucky people would see but I assume one of their eyes will look perfectly aligned as I think the brain does select it's view from one eye only, with the other contributing for binocular vision for depth perception and spatial recognition.

Terry

[Manu147]

Usually, one very simple way to tell which eye you are using for sighting (and it might not be the dominant eye by the way) is to line up a straight blue and then close first one eye and then the other. From one of the eyes the cue will look perfectly aligned on the line of aim and from the other it will look to be to the side.

For me (right-handed, cue on centre-chin, but head turned slightly right) I know I sight with the left eye as it's the only one I can see clearly out of although before my eye surgery my sighting eye was always my right eye. If I close the right eye and look along the cue to cueball, object ball and pocket it looks perfectly aligned. If I close the left eye I am looking from the side of the cue and I can't tell where it's aimed at all.

I've never been even-eyed so I don't know what those lucky people would see but I assume one of their eyes will look perfectly aligned as I think the brain does select it's view from one eye only, with the other contributing for binocular vision for depth perception and spatial recognition.

Terry

Terry, you are showing a test here to confirm which eye sights the correct line, the straight line to the brains view, but claim the preferred or dominant eye is complete nonsense, i know griffiths, frank callan, pj nolan, to name a few disagree, even nic barrow shows the cue on table test, moving the head to find the correct position for the individual, and in any test i have tried with players this has always coincided with their dominant. Two eyes can have the same prescription but in all but a very small % one of their eyes will dominate over the other to give the info to the brain, and in anybody i have asked about this(pros included), the more dominant eye is more over the line of aim. Even watch nic barrow using his own dartfish clips, when standing straight up before dropping down the visual line dissecting his body has one of his eyes closer to the line of shot than the other(small but still noticeable) .

[Particle Physics]

Terry, you are showing a test here to confirm which eye sights the correct line, the straight line to the brains view, but claim the preferred or dominant eye is complete nonsense, i know griffiths, frank callan, pj nolan, to name a few disagree, even nic barrow shows the cue on table test, moving the head to find the correct position for the individual, and in any test i have tried with players this has always coincided with their dominant. Two eyes can have the same prescription but in all but a very small % one of their eyes will dominate over the other to give the info to the brain, and in anybody i have asked about this(pros included), the more dominant eye is more over the line of aim. Even watch nic barrow using his own dartfish clips, when standing straight up before dropping down the visual line dissecting his body has one of his eyes closer to the line of shot than the other(small but still noticeable) .

Interesting stuff. I think I've found a way to cue centrally and sight properly, even with a dominant eye, at least on a pool table. Look at the angle standing up, get down with you cue under your chin and stare at the angle with your left eye (the wrong eye) for a second or two (with the dominant eye closed), then set the angle with both eyes open by resetting the cue the tiny fraction you need to according to what you now see with both eyes (you got down into position using the wrong angle with you dominant eye). It's a bit convoluted, but it does work. I'm guessing that by staring with your 'wrong' eye, the brain switches this eye on, and for a few seconds once you open your 'right' eye, you have true stereo vision, balanced. Looking at the shot after the 'right' eye has opened leads to a tiny bit of brain dizzyness, and that's down to your brain looking at something with both eyes for a change, and being slightly confused from the norm of predominantly one eye only. It seems to work. There is a second advantage; one is forced to do a pre-shot pause; which coaches advocate.

A variation is to stare at the potting angle with your wrong eye (dominant eye closed) before getting down for a few seconds, so the wrong eye switches on. You should line up the correct angle to walk into/get down on simply because your brain knows the angles whichever eye you choose. Just before you get down, you open the right eye, and you have true stereo, balanced vision. Once down, you may have to wait a second or so for your vision to reset. This can be speeded up by looking at the nearest chevron one can see on the cue. This doesn't involve resetting on the table surface, so may be less convoluted. There is still that slight feeling of fuzziness in the brain about what you see but this may dissipate once the brain gets used to this activity. I think that one could simply stare at anything before getting down, it's all about switching the wrong eye on, to sight the angle.

* I've just redone the finger test (which is valid for me). By staring at a cupboard handle in the distance with my wrong eye (non-dominant), then opening up the dominant eye, I can put my finger up and see two fingers either side of the handle. This suggests balanced sighting but with a lack of convergence. Not completely sure what this means.

I'll test it on the snooker table later and report.

[nrage]

anyway back to the original point, i have changed the cue position under my chin quite a bit in recent months. originally i use to have it under my left eye which is my dominant eye, however its moved accross to the right side of my chin, i'm not sure why however it feels more comfortable there.

Stance has a lot to do with comfort where cue position is concerned. A squarer stance favours the right eye (if right handed) and a more side on stance allows left eye favour with comfort. I use a slightly side on stance to allow me to comfortably get the cue just left of my nose (right hander). The stance changes the chest position, and if you try to get the cue somewhere without looking at stance you can end up with the chest pushing the cue offline, or cueing across it.

[pottr]

This all sounds ridiculous to me.

It's a bit convoluted, but it does work.

If you genuinely think that complex equations of thought and the flickering of one eye to the other is helping you push the cue through the white ball straight, then you really are half way down the rabbit hole my friend.

You are telling yourself what you want to believe based on your efforts. Very specious reasoning.

Look at the table,
pick your shot,
walk into the shot,
keep still,
push the cue through straight,

rinse and repeat...

I am yet to see my eyeball leap from my orbit and grip the cue for me and play a shot.

Terry's in the twilight of his snooker days and can still make centuries with one pissing eye!

Stop worrying about how much change you have in one pocket or if your shoes are tied properly and you have ten lashes few for one eye than the other. The reason you're improving is because you're playing more.

[nrage]

Stop worrying about how much change you have in one pocket or if your shows are tied properly and you have ten lashes few for one eye than the other. The reason you're improving is because you're playing more.

Many a true word is spoken in jest.

[pottr]

And in frustration

How would one tie his shows? I'm useless at typing.

[Particle Physics]

And in frustration

How would one tie his shows? I'm useless at typing.

Well, if you ain't got something positive to say, don't bother typing badly or typing at all!

[Particle Physics]

I've just spoken to an optician who confirms that this trick works and is used by those using shotguns, and the like. She tells me that persistence is necessary, for the brain to adjust. Practice makes perfect. So once again, you close the dominant eye for a few seconds and stare at something with the undominant eye, e.g. the cue and object ball angle/relationship. This get's your brain to switch on the undominant eye. Get down, judge the angle with both eyes open, and you should see the same shot line that your cue is making from the centre of your chin. You should be seeing in stereo, balanced vision (assuming that you've got good eyesight, or have corrected eyesight using lenses of some sort).

Or, as PJ Nolan, Terry Griffiths and lots of other World Snooker Coaches recommend, cue under the dominant eye. That's right, world snooker coaches acknowledge dominant eye theory and get their players to do something about it, it's real! However, there are numerous benefits to using both eyes in balance, including depth of field, judging distances, etc.

[pottr]

Well, if you ain't got something positive to say, don't bother typing badly or typing at all!

Hey, I'll be the first to pat you on the back if you come up with something that's tangible in terms of an improvement.

It's just that you go on about these insignificant little nuances in your cue action and then back up each statement with so much exposition, I could forgive myself for thinking you'd invented the wheel.

When I hear that your eye swapping technique has led to you knocking in back to back maximums everytime you pick up your cue then I'll certainly adopt the technique.

Until that point however I think most people will think that your improvement is down to a higher frequency of practice. There may be some psychological effect that you're not concentrating on negative aspects of the shot I suppose... I can't see how but it's plausable.

Glad you're improving but all the same, I think it will be a while before I notice any top players switching their eyes and blinking like they've just been plugged into the matrix.

All the best.

[Manu147]

I've just spoken to an optician who confirms that this trick works and is used by those using shotguns, and the like. She tells me that persistence is necessary, for the brain to adjust. Practice makes perfect. So once again, you close the dominant eye for a few seconds and stare at something with the undominant eye, e.g. the cue and object ball angle/relationship. This get's your brain to switch on the undominant eye. Get down, judge the angle with both eyes open, and you should see the same shot line that your cue is making from the centre of your chin. You should be seeing in stereo, balanced vision (assuming that you've got good eyesight, or have corrected eyesight using lenses of some sort).

Or, as PJ Nolan, Terry Griffiths and lots of other World Snooker Coaches recommend, cue under the dominant eye. That's right, world snooker coaches acknowledge dominant eye theory and get their players to do something about it, it's real! However, there are numerous benefits to using both eyes in balance, including depth of field, judging distances, etc.

When im talking about the dominant eye this does not have be took to the extreme, i mean the likes of ros and higgins still cue fairly centrally, but they still are favouring one eye(both left in these cases), so therefore why would ur system make any sense to try and achieve(not being rude by the way), ur just slowing your thought process down for no advantage.

[pottr]

I think for paritcle it could be the slowing down of that thought process that is helping. I know I play a lot better when I take more time to calmy think things through.