Eye Dominance, Sighting and the Cue

[Particle Physics]

I've discovered that I'm adjusting the cue position and head position to compensate for R eye dominance. My dominance means that on the finger test, the finger is exactly where it is with my left eye closed, compared to both eyes open. Adjusting the head and cue position is probably why I'm missing so many pots that I know my brains knows the angles of. Judd Trump and Neil Robertson are both left handers but R eye dominant, and unusual twist compared to most folk. They cue under the right side of their chins, giving the cue plenty of R eye action.

Are they also using the cue to line up the shot, once it's under the chin, using the cue as a pointing device to measure the angles? I ask because I've always just put the cue under the middle of the chin and looked at the white and object balls. I wonder if I should now go under the right edge of the chin and look down the cue?

[denja]

I've discovered that I'm adjusting the cue position and head position to compensate for R eye dominance. My dominance means that on the finger test, the finger is exactly where it is with my left eye closed, compared to both eyes open. Adjusting the head and cue position is probably why I'm missing so many pots that I know my brains knows the angles of. Judd Trump and Neil Robertson are both left handers but R eye dominant, and unusual twist compared to most folk. They cue under the right side of their chins, giving the cue plenty of R eye action.

Are they also using the cue to line up the shot, once it's under the chin, using the cue as a pointing device to measure the angles? I ask because I've always just put the cue under the middle of the chin and looked at the white and object balls. I wonder if I should now go under the right edge of the chin and look down the cue?

I think John Virgo and Steve Newbury are examples of players who play with their cue under the right of the chin have a look at some photos of these player ! I play with the cue under the right eye but I find the square stance better, try shooting over the spots with a target in line with the black spot (A block of chalk on the edge of the table) it helped me find out the exact position under the right eye and chin that was best if you can get the cue ball returning right on the cue tip you are well on the way, if you can do it with plenty of pace you are brilliant (that"s hard)

[Particle Physics]

I think John Virgo and Steve Newbury are examples of players who play with their cue under the right of the chin have a look at some photos of these player ! I play with the cue under the right eye but I find the square stance better, try shooting over the spots with a target in line with the black spot (A block of chalk on the edge of the table) it helped me find out the exact position under the right eye and chin that was best if you can get the cue ball returning right on the cue tip you are well on the way, if you can do it with plenty of pace you are brilliant (that"s hard)

Cheers buddy, I'll try that asap.

[denja]

Cheers buddy, I'll try that asap.

One warning start out at slow pace up the table and sort of trickle back over the brown spot or you will get real frustrated, then up the pace so you return and hit the balk cushion if you can go up and down twice and back to the top cushion perfect over the spots you are 10/10. remember the quality of the table has some effect.

[LittleMissAlexa]

I've discovered that I'm adjusting the cue position and head position to compensate for R eye dominance. My dominance means that on the finger test, the finger is exactly where it is with my left eye closed, compared to both eyes open. Adjusting the head and cue position is probably why I'm missing so many pots that I know my brains knows the angles of. Judd Trump and Neil Robertson are both left handers but R eye dominant, and unusual twist compared to most folk. They cue under the right side of their chins, giving the cue plenty of R eye action.

Are they also using the cue to line up the shot, once it's under the chin, using the cue as a pointing device to measure the angles? I ask because I've always just put the cue under the middle of the chin and looked at the white and object balls. I wonder if I should now go under the right edge of the chin and look down the cue?

i have 50 percent vision in one eye 20 in the other so i have to cue this way im left eye dominant by the way

[Particle Physics]

One warning start out at slow pace up the table and sort of trickle back over the brown spot or you will get real frustrated, then up the pace so you return and hit the balk cushion if you can go up and down twice and back to the top cushion perfect over the spots you are 10/10. remember the quality of the table has some effect.

Yeah, I don't plan on doing this at Rileys! lol. I guess we are also testing the table at the same time, which is a good thing. Thanks for the advice, it sounds sound.

[Particle Physics]

i have 50 percent vision in one eye 20 in the other so i have to cue this way im left eye dominant by the way

I know someone who is a 70 breaker. He can't see the pockets properly due to his vision. He says to me, well you don't need to see the pockets, the table doesn't change, you just have to know where they are in your mind. He pots the most amazing balls with a grip which would be a no-no for most coaches. I have a lot of admiration for his PMA.

[denja]

Yeah, I don't plan on doing this at Rileys! lol. I guess we are also testing the table at the same time, which is a good thing. Thanks for the advice, it sounds sound.

Rileys forget it last time I was there even the markings on one of the table were out.

[Particle Physics]

Rileys forget it last time I was there even the markings on one of the table were out.

Match table we used had two Ds marked. Unreal.

[nrage]

My dominance means that on the finger test, the finger is exactly where it is with my left eye closed, compared to both eyes open.

I don't buy the finger test as a valid test. When I do the test I get the same result as you, yet the correct position for the cue, for me, is to the left of my chin. I found this correct position through trial and error, it is the position in which I see the table as it actually is and therefore judge the angles right. It's the position I was using naturally before I heard about left/right eye dominance and other such nonsense and mistakenly changed what I was using naturally.

So, IMO, don't change anything based on the finger test or any other test. Instead, get a mate to hold the cue on the line of aim for a straight, long shot to the edge of the pocket leather (which is a more precise point than the whole pocket itself). Get down over the cue and move your head side to side until the shot "looks" perfect. Remember this head/chin position and find a stance which makes it natural/comfortable. Then, pot a load of balls and see how it goes.

[Gerry Armstrong]

I don't buy the finger test as a valid test. When I do the test I get the same result as you, yet the correct position for the cue, for me, is to the left of my chin. I found this correct position through trial and error, it is the position in which I see the table as it actually is and therefore judge the angles right. It's the position I was using naturally before I heard about left/right eye dominance and other such nonsense and mistakenly changed what I was using naturally.

So, IMO, don't change anything based on the finger test or any other test. Instead, get a mate to hold the cue on the line of aim for a straight, long shot to the edge of the pocket leather (which is a more precise point than the whole pocket itself). Get down over the cue and move your head side to side until the shot "looks" perfect. Remember this head/chin position and find a stance which makes it natural/comfortable. Then, pot a load of balls and see how it goes.

I agree that the finger test is not much use.

I had the same issue with the SightRight board - when I get down on the shot I can see 2 lines i.e. double when I'm on the shot, one from each eye. I can make both lines the "correct" line by moving my head one way and closing one eye or moving my head the other way and closing the other eye. With 2 eyes open there are 2 lines, same as the finger test (I always see 2 pieces of chalk).

[Particle Physics]

I don't buy the finger test as a valid test. When I do the test I get the same result as you, yet the correct position for the cue, for me, is to the left of my chin. I found this correct position through trial and error, it is the position in which I see the table as it actually is and therefore judge the angles right. It's the position I was using naturally before I heard about left/right eye dominance and other such nonsense and mistakenly changed what I was using naturally.

So, IMO, don't change anything based on the finger test or any other test. Instead, get a mate to hold the cue on the line of aim for a straight, long shot to the edge of the pocket leather (which is a more precise point than the whole pocket itself). Get down over the cue and move your head side to side until the shot "looks" perfect. Remember this head/chin position and find a stance which makes it natural/comfortable. Then, pot a load of balls and see how it goes.

Wow, I'm going to have to try that as well. I did pot some balls on the pool table last night with left eye over cue just for an out of curiosity, though this doesn't count as pool is pretty easy and can't be scaled up to 13 foot pots on a snooker table. Like you say, I'll just have to experiment.

[nrage]

I agree that the finger test is not much use.

I had the same issue with the SightRight board - when I get down on the shot I can see 2 lines i.e. double when I'm on the shot, one from each eye. I can make both lines the "correct" line by moving my head one way and closing one eye or moving my head the other way and closing the other eye. With 2 eyes open there are 2 lines, same as the finger test (I always see 2 pieces of chalk).

I think that probably indicates fairly balanced selection of eye going on in your brain. If I concentrate I can "select" the eye to make "dominant" on the finger test - much like how you can see the 2 pictures in an optical illusion.

Ultimately the finger test is forcing the brain to pick an eye, but if you don't force it to it will happily use /both/. Which is why picking one and putting the cue under it is just plain bonkers - because you don't play with one eye closed do you?

Another thing .. depth perception /requires/ 2 points of reference minimum and part of aiming requires judging distance between balls, between where the ball is and where the pocket is - in order to judge the angle needed to pot it, etc. So, you /must/ be using both eyes to aim, or you would really struggle.

Another thing that always bugged me about the finger test is that distance matters (because the brain can and will select (if forced to) different eyes for different distances .. so if you do the test with a long distance object (more than 12 ft away) you might only be finding your long distance eye, and not the one which your brain prefers for shorter < 12 ft distances. Likewise, perhaps you brain favours one eye for < 6ft distances.. in which case the eye it uses may change shot by shot.

All in all, forcing the brain to use just one eye is simply a bad idea, and placing the cue under just one eye will only make it harder for the brain to do it's job, tho, if you try hard enough you will eventually train it to manage despite this.

[Particle Physics]

I think that probably indicates fairly balanced selection of eye going on in your brain. If I concentrate I can "select" the eye to make "dominant" on the finger test - much like how you can see the 2 pictures in an optical illusion.

Ultimately the finger test is forcing the brain to pick an eye, but if you don't force it to it will happily use /both/. Which is why picking one and putting the cue under it is just plain bonkers - because you don't play with one eye closed do you?

Another thing .. depth perception /requires/ 2 points of reference minimum and part of aiming requires judging distance between balls, between where the ball is and where the pocket is - in order to judge the angle needed to pot it, etc. So, you /must/ be using both eyes to aim, or you would really struggle.

Another thing that always bugged me about the finger test is that distance matters (because the brain can and will select (if forced to) different eyes for different distances .. so if you do the test with a long distance object (more than 12 ft away) you might only be finding your long distance eye, and not the one which your brain prefers for shorter < 12 ft distances. Likewise, perhaps you brain favours one eye for < 6ft distances.. in which case the eye it uses may change shot by shot.

All in all, forcing the brain to use just one eye is simply a bad idea, and placing the cue under just one eye will only make it harder for the brain to do it's job, tho, if you try hard enough you will eventually train it to manage despite this.

I know what you're saying about the finger test Nrage, but studies using high tech equipment confirm that most folk (70%) are R eye dominant. Of course, if you patch one eye, the brain will begin receiving images from the other lens out of necessity. I meant to ask an eye surgeon about this the last time I saw him and forgot. Damn. I wonder if my left eye can be switched on through patching? I just did a wee experiment. I stared at the potting angle with my left eye (R eye closed), lined up and got down, played the pot with both eyes open and it went in no bother, from various angles. I wonder if the L eye line up compensates for the R eye dominance once down on the shot? Patching may be the answer, I'm gonna have to ask someone about this, not just for snooker, but for shooting as well. 50/50 stereo vision with good depth of field would be useful for so many aspects of life.

[Terry Davidson]

particle:

Pay attention to what nrage is telling you. (edited for manu147) The idea that the 'preferred' or 'dominant' eye must be over the cue is complete and utter nonsense and only came into being because of Joe Davis who was virtually blind in his right eye so he had to cue under the left.

If a player has normal vision out of both eyes or vision which can be corrected with glasses or contacts then he should be using both eyes when aiming and sighting a shot. If a player is blind in one eye then he should consider moving the cue underneath that eye.

Now let me prove this is so...first of all, where is your head when you select the line of aim? It should be up over the shot and then you drop the head STRAIGHT DOWN. If you are confirming and adjusting the line of aim while down on the shot you are making one HUGE mistake. From above the shot and selecting the line of aim would be exactly the same as driving a car where a driver doesn't turn the head one way or another and also doesn't move the head over towards the window or towards the passenger seat to get his vision out of his 'preferred' eye (behind the steering wheel) so he can drive safely.

For snooker and driving and almost every other sighting activity we need the binocular vision of both eyes for depth perception and spatial recognition (aiming) and only those blind in one eye cannot get this right and need to move the cue.

The big question I get, and as you mentioned there are pros with the cue running on one side of the chin or another. Next time you can just go up to Robertson and ask him why his cue is under one side of his chin. I bet (if he can explain it) it will be nothing to do with his 'dominant eye' but rather the natural set-up he has adopted in order to drive the cue straight along his selected line of aim, WHICH HE CHOSE WHILE STANDING UP!

So, I'll say it again...listen to nrage as he is telling you what is real regarding this preferred eye nonsense. It's more to do with the set-up which is natural to your own individual physique and also getting your brain that binocular picture.

Now, you didn't mention but if you are virtually blind in one eye or else (like me) you have very poor vision in one eye which can't be corrected then you can consider putting the cue to one side under the stronger eye. My right eye, after cataract surgery, is very blurry and no contact lense or glasses is able to correct it and I can't get LASIK surgery. In video analysis I noticed I keep my head turned slightly to the right so the cue is still on the centre of my chin but a little more under the left eye.

Then when I looked at this and tried to get my head straight I realized why I was doing it and it was for COMFORT. Trying to keep my head up and centered gave me a pain in the upper spine and that's the ONLY reason I turn my head. So I will say again, forget all about the preferred or dominant eye theory (over the cue) and concentrate on staying comfortable and still on the shot.

Terry