Eye Dominance, Sighting and the Cue

[Particle Physics]

More like: "Whoever monitors the threads on this forum should ban abusive/moronic users."

Numpty.

Cheers dude. Good call.

Obviously, the not so sound of mind, cannot understand that one removes the patch. Obviously, if one is cueing under the chin, using the left eye (non-dominant) with the R eye patched would simply lead to the same problem as before. Hello! You remove the patch after two hours, and hey presto, balanced vision. The usual period advised for patching is about three months, at 2hrs a day. Quite a bit of hassle but a great alternative to cue under dominant eye for many reasons. And yes, at practice, I found out it works; balanced vision restored after just one session. These sort of things can be found out by talking to optometrists. It's more informative than reading toilet walls, but it does take intelligence to understand what they're talking about, so perhaps some folk should stay in the cubicle?

[Particle Physics]

Just to add my 2 cents worth Particle...I believe in almost every string you have put up I have mentioned to you to pick a set-up and technique and stick with it or in other words 'don't f*ck around with things all the time'.

This patching thing, like Giggity says to me sounds VERY DANGEROUS and you could screw yourself up forever.

I believe the best way a coach can learn things and teach them is to watch the top pros and see what they do in COMMON. Since almost every pro has their cue in a different position on their chin or else their heads turned a bit one way or another a different amount I would say the confirmation of aiming method (not the aiming method as that's done standing up and automatically uses the preferred eye anyway) used by the pros is NOT A COMMON THING.

My strong recommendation to you is to find out what method of aiming confirmation you feel the most NATURAL AND COMFORTABLE with for YOU and don't try to change things to suit some mold that you've come up with from somewhere.

Some pros do naturally cue under their preferred eye and some don't and use centre-chin and these players (I believe) have picked the aiming confirmation set-up (in other words the address position) that feels best to them and gives them the most confidence that they have selected the correct line of aim.

Pick one method and let your brain get used to it instead of re-programming your brain all the time. You are not Mr. Data or a cyborg (or at least I hope not) but you may end up being a zombie because you may totally screw up your game and actually look FORWARD to painting your house as the high point of your day.

Terry

Terry and Giggity, thankyou for your concern.

I spoke to an expert about this first. And it's safe, and it works. It's mostly done to kids to help correct vision problems but works with adults as well. I've done it because I need balanced vision for snooker, shooting, off-road driving and so may other things in life that will benefit from it. In theory, it's less hassle than cueing under the dominant eye, because one simply plays centre chin, and doesn't change a thing. The patching is a hassle, but it works, so I'll continue for a few months. My uncle is an eye surgeon, so I may ask his advice to boot, if I can catch him in a good mood.

Terry, I'm quite close to my ideal set-up now. I'll be videoing once I've got it practised a bit, and uploading for your expert opinion, and those of TSF members. Cheers.

[Giggity1984]

Terry and Giggity, thankyou for your concern.

I spoke to an expert about this first. And it's safe, and it works. It's mostly done to kids to help correct vision problems but works with adults as well. I've done it because I need balanced vision for snooker, shooting, off-road driving and so may other things in life that will benefit from it. In theory, it's less hassle than cueing under the dominant eye, because one simply plays centre chin, and doesn't change a thing. The patching is a hassle, but it works, so I'll continue f or a few months. My uncle is an eye surgeon, so I may ask his advice to boot, if I can catch him in a good mood.

Terry, I'm quite close to my ideal set-up now. I'll be videoing once I've got it practised a bit, and uploading for your expert opinion, and those of TSF members. Cheers.

particle, your right about why eye patching is used in kids to correct certain conditions and the sports its perceived to be needed in. However........ i still can't understand why you want to do it. Shooting is an interesting example. Shotgun shooting it is undesirable and in scoped target shooting both eyes are used to sight the shot before closing one eye to scope in. in actual fact you can use either eye to scope, so really eye dominance is a non issue.

Your not meant to be ambi occular, this is not a good thing to strive for. Google that term and tell me you want some of those symptoms! You may temporarily change the dominance of your eyes threw a patch routine, but eventually(hopefully) you will return to normal. If you didn't then that would not be cool imo.

The body has lots of intricasies and foybles. It doesn't mean you have to correct them when playing. You don't hear Terry telling you to place more weight on one foot because it is slightly bigger then the other!

I honestly can't believe that its not easier to cue slightly to the left or right or turn your head rather then go to these lengths!

[jrc750]

PP your crazy !!!!!!!!!!!!

[vmax4steve]

I've tried cue under left eye as Vmax suggested

I don't recall ever suggesting this Particle, in fact I've posted on this thread that I don't believe that anyone has to find their dominant eye and deliberately cue under it as I believe the brain naturally does it for you.

Just another ingredient into the mix here ; when taking an eye test the optician will put a pair of specs on you that can have the lenses interchanged, popping one in, taking one out, asking if there are improvements or negatives in your vision. At certain points one lens is blanked off, then the other, but most of the time the optician is trying to balance your vision for use with both eyes. Never have I had an eye test where the right eye only was tested and a lens found for it and then the left tested and a lens found for it also and then both eyes worked perfectly together.
Even now when looking at my PC screen wearing my specs, if I close my left eye the vision is not as good as when I close my right eye, but with both eyes open it is perfect. With my specs off though and getting close to the screen so I can read, both eyes are equal when used together and equal when using just one or the other.

**Could it be that opticians actually make sure you have a dominant eye for true depth perception ?

Could it be that patching one eye would f*ck this up ? I remember working with a bloke who was a forklift driver who only had one eye and the damage he caused was astronomical as he couldn't judge distance, yet he always passed his forklift test every three years. If 20/40 vision is all that's needed to pass a driving test it sure explains the blind b*stards who can't see me when I'm riding my motorbike.

**Pottr, ask your future dragon in law if this is correct.

[Particle Physics]

particle, your right about why eye patching is used in kids to correct certain conditions and the sports its perceived to be needed in. However........ i still can't understand why you want to do it. Shooting is an interesting example. Shotgun shooting it is undesirable and in scoped target shooting both eyes are used to sight the shot before closing one eye to scope in. in actual fact you can use either eye to scope, so really eye dominance is a non issue.

Your not meant to be ambi occular, this is not a good thing to strive for. Google that term and tell me you want some of those symptoms! You may temporarily change the dominance of your eyes threw a patch routine, but eventually(hopefully) you will return to normal. If you didn't then that would not be cool imo.

The body has lots of intricasies and foybles. It doesn't mean you have to correct them when playing. You don't hear Terry telling you to place more weight on one foot because it is slightly bigger then the other!

I honestly can't believe that its not easier to cue slightly to the left or right or turn your head rather then go to these lengths!

I can go to the R eye and pot balls. I would just like to cue centre chin. If there's a way of doing it, I'm game.

[Particle Physics]

particle, your right about why eye patching is used in kids to correct certain conditions and the sports its perceived to be needed in. However........ i still can't understand why you want to do it. Shooting is an interesting example. Shotgun shooting it is undesirable and in scoped target shooting both eyes are used to sight the shot before closing one eye to scope in. in actual fact you can use either eye to scope, so really eye dominance is a non issue.

Your not meant to be ambi occular, this is not a good thing to strive for. Google that term and tell me you want some of those symptoms! You may temporarily change the dominance of your eyes threw a patch routine, but eventually(hopefully) you will return to normal. If you didn't then that would not be cool imo.

The body has lots of intricasies and foybles. It doesn't mean you have to correct them when playing. You don't hear Terry telling you to place more weight on one foot because it is slightly bigger then the other!

I honestly can't believe that its not easier to cue slightly to the left or right or turn your head rather then go to these lengths!

I can go to the R eye and pot balls, or I can adjust my body head, still cue under centre chin, and pot balls though this method is inconsistent. Or I can patch, and go centre chin, see the angles correctly and pot balls. The solution is one of these three and right now, patching seems the best way to go. The other option is do nothing, which means seeing the wrong angle all the time (cue under chin). I'm not going to do the latter, because I would give up snooker altogether instead. So it basically comes down to going under the dominant eye or patching. Both work consistently.

[Giggity1984]

I can go to the R eye and pot balls. I would just like to cue centre chin. If there's a way of doing it, I'm game.

There is........Forget about this dominant eye malarkins. lol. I'm right eye dominant and i cue centre chin. I can assure you it didn't make a blind bit of difference when i experimented otherwise, i went through it all before(admittedly with no eye patch though!).

[Giggity1984]

I can go to the R eye and pot balls, or I can adjust my body head.

Do one of these then. Seriously, pick one and forget about it!

[Manu147]

I can go to the R eye and pot balls. I would just like to cue centre chin. If there's a way of doing it, I'm game.

Of the top 20 or so pros, ali carter and ding are the 2 i can think of that centre sight so to speak, the rest marginally or more extreme favour one eye or another, this is also mirrored again when they use the rest, so this must be where each individual sees his true line, also in the players i have watched this is also true in their stand up position, for instance when mark allen plays a dead sraight blue to the middle pocket, from his stand up position a staight line thru the blue and white would come up thru his body dissecting his left so to speak, he then drops head down straight on same line more or less, therefore he sees the same line that he had when he was standing up, if he went centre chin he would be looking across it, i believe this subconcious of course, so i believe players should
in doubt should let someone take a photo or them when using the rest, so their position down on shot should mirror this, whether it is centre chin or marginally under one eye, the reason i use the rest as an example is this the closest position that mirrors the standind up position, which is were the initial decision should be made. (hope that makes sense)

[alabadi]

I have been following this thread with interest, however i can't believe that it has gone on this long.

from the first few comments i got all the information i need, i think there have been some extravagent opinions and some are adamant that they are right. i myself trust the coaches here and believe they are only looking out for the wellbeing of us all.

i myself will not post any comments but will post on any improvements that might come my way from what i have learned here.

great post, lots of comments, some weird some very intelligent.....great stuff

Alabbadi

[nrage]

I have been following this thread with interset, however i can't believe that it has gone on this long.

Me neither, it seems the key points have been lost in the noise.

I think everyone would agree that some people have a dominant eye, and some rare individuals are evenly sighted, how many and what percentage might be argued over, but I don't think anyone would say that people don't have a dominant eye.

The Q is, what should a player do about it. The answer is simple, find the position which gives you the real view of things. So, put your cue on the correct line of aim and find a position for your head which makes it look correct to you, end of story.

Everyone will have at least one positions which is correct for them. For someone who is completely blind in one eye, this position will be directly below the good eye. For everyone else it will be somewhere between the two eyes, with some people as far over as to be directly under the dominant eye. What percentage of people end up under the dominant eye is another point of debate, but honestly it's not important to an individual player, they need to find their own correct position.

Some people may be using an "incorrect" position but have trained themselves to compensate for it, the brain is a marvelous machine and can achieve amazing things given enough time and practice.

Trying to force a position which isn't natural will put you in the above camp, unless you can somehow change how your brain/eyes function and that to me sounds very dangerous. For example, I know someone with a lazy eye which wasn't caught/corrected when they were young, but no optician in their right mind would recommend attempting to correct it now. It's not that it's impossible to correct, it's that the process is very difficult and can result in migraine's and other side effects which may be temporary but can actually be permanent. That's not the sort of risk anyone should be taking for a sport, even a pro IMO.

[Particle Physics]

Me neither, it seems the key points have been lost in the noise.

I think everyone would agree that some people have a dominant eye, and some rare individuals are evenly sighted, how many and what percentage might be argued over, but I don't think anyone would say that people don't have a dominant eye.

The Q is, what should a player do about it. The answer is simple, find the position which gives you the real view of things. So, put your cue on the correct line of aim and find a position for your head which makes it look correct to you, end of story.

Everyone will have at least one positions which is correct for them. For someone who is completely blind in one eye, this position will be directly below the good eye. For everyone else it will be somewhere between the two eyes, with some people as far over as to be directly under the dominant eye. What percentage of people end up under the dominant eye is another point of debate, but honestly it's not important to an individual player, they need to find their own correct position.

Some people may be using an "incorrect" position but have trained themselves to compensate for it, the brain is a marvelous machine and can achieve amazing things given enough time and practice.

Trying to force a position which isn't natural will put you in the above camp, unless you can somehow change how your brain/eyes function and that to me sounds very dangerous. For example, I know someone with a lazy eye which wasn't caught/corrected when they were young, but no optician in their right mind would recommend attempting to correct it now. It's not that it's impossible to correct, it's that the process is very difficult and can result in migraine's and other side effects which may be temporary but can actually be permanent. That's not the sort of risk anyone should be taking for a sport, even a pro IMO.

It's gone on quite a bit because there are very differing and concrete views on this topic, and a lot of different solutions; it becomes multiplicative. I'm going off to do some more patching. I will write a fresh article, outlining my experiences for all to read, once I've done say a month of patching or whatever solution I come up with.

[pottr]

Obviously, the not so sound of mind, cannot understand that one removes the patch.

I'm sound of mind to recognise that I didn't need to worry about which I eye I was looking out of to start potting balls.

Particle, how good a player are you? Just asking. Because the annoyance I have with your sighting suggestion is you consistently reiterate the suggestion as a path to improved potting on the snooker table. I am curious as to how far it has taken you?

**Pottr, ask your future dragon in law if this is correct.

She says the law on sight required for driving is sketchy at best. Shudders to think of all the people she knows are on the road that shouldn't be.

I asked about the patch thing and as I don't get it fully myself, I'm not quite sure I got across the goal that PP is trying to achieve.
She did say that whilst you could train your mind to compensate for the loss of an eye, the minute you use both eyes again, your brain will re-compensate and likely undo all of the conscious effort you've put forth.
She said it could be possible to put your mind on a diet and decide to ignore one eye. But again, when you stopped the effort required to do this, the brain would compensate, just like when someone has a weaker eye and they get corrective lenses.

For what it's worth, I had fifteen minutes on my table trying out the 'patch theory'. I think I managed to pot four or five shots out of thirty and each with my right eye. Probably because I'm right handed. I tried to change eyes before my address and after I was down at the table. Zero improvement for me.

In fact, I potted more than triple the amount of balls with my eyes closed alltogether.

This gazumped the dominant eye theory for me as I know for a fact that my left eye is the strongest.
I remain resolute that particle's improvement is through higher frequency of practice.

I will write a fresh article, outlining my experiences for all to read, once I've done say a month of patching or whatever solution I come up with.

Please include a video so we can better understand the theory.

[vmax4steve]

She says the law on sight required for driving is sketchy at best. Shudders to think of all the people she knows are on the road that shouldn't be.

I meant whether an optician will make sure you have a dominant eye when correcting your vision in order that the brain can use one against the other to get depth perception.