Eye Dominance, Sighting and the Cue

[nrage]

I had a good chat with the senior Doc in the place (it's a teaching facility so a lot of Profs around and because of my problem with my cornea they hooked me up with the 'big gun'). He confirmed I was using my left eye as my preferred eye but he said (he plays snooker and was an archer of high standard) that most people will have a preferred eye which the brain uses as its primary image and for sighting along a cue most people would naturally find a spot between the two eyes which would give their brain the truest picture and it's almost never right underneath the preferred eye but rather might slightly favour that eye. He also said there are some that are more even sighted and although they have a preferred eye they may have the cue favouring the non-preferred eye but whichever spot is chosen which feels the best the brain would soon adapt to that picture given enough use (practice).

He also said that since I could see something out of my right eye, even though it was blurry I would normally have a spot somewhere between the two eyes. If I was totally blind in the right eye then I would likely choose a spot right underneath the left eye or very little distance away from it. He said everyone was unique and it totally depended on the strength difference between the two eyes and also one very important point for snooker players here...if your vision starts to change even a little bit it is really much better to get it corrected right away and maintain at least 20/20 in each eye as otherwise you may start altering the alignment between cue and eyes which then becomes a set-up change and leaves the player a little in limbo until the brain gets re-trained.

This is exactly what I've been saying all along.

[sharkster63]

Good Day, Terry and all,
I have managed to read this whole thread, I found it interesting, made me realize how hard and important it is to correctly state the meaning and purpose of a post so it is correctly interpreted to all. I feel lucky that I don't think about wich eye I am using when playing, I have realized that I am right eye dominant but my aim with two eyes is the same as the aim with my dominant right eye. I am thinking that these contacts will help you out allot, it will give you an improved visibility without changing your dominant eye, I also don't think you will have to change your aiming, stance, cueing technique at all. (in short you will have a more stable ground when sighting your shot and angle with the use of two good eyes instead of just one and a bit. I think (not sure but think your stability will improve) less movement unless its from over exertion as for us all.
Hope these contacts improve your visibility and improve or help make the game easier.
Cheers,
Rolly C. sends

Just had an appointment with the University of Waterloo contact lens research centre and wonder of wonders, with correction for astigmatism (sp?) they managed to get my right eye to 20/20 (not sure of the technical rating but I was clearly reading the 5th line of their chart and they also got the left eye to 20/10 but decided to back off on the left to 20/15 to have the eyes more evenly matched. It will be around a week before I get the actual contacts but I'm really interested in trying them out.

I had a good chat with the senior Doc in the place (it's a teaching facility so a lot of Profs around and because of my problem with my cornea they hooked me up with the 'big gun'). He confirmed I was using my left eye as my preferred eye but he said (he plays snooker and was an archer of high standard) that most people will have a preferred eye which the brain uses as its primary image and for sighting along a cue most people would naturally find a spot between the two eyes which would give their brain the truest picture and it's almost never right underneath the preferred eye but rather might slightly favour that eye. He also said there are some that are more even sighted and although they have a preferred eye they may have the cue favouring the non-preferred eye but whichever spot is chosen which feels the best the brain would soon adapt to that picture given enough use (practice).

He also said that since I could see something out of my right eye, even though it was blurry I would normally have a spot somewhere between the two eyes. If I was totally blind in the right eye then I would likely choose a spot right underneath the left eye or very little distance away from it. He said everyone was unique and it totally depended on the strength difference between the two eyes and also one very important point for snooker players here...if your vision starts to change even a little bit it is really much better to get it corrected right away and maintain at least 20/20 in each eye as otherwise you may start altering the alignment between cue and eyes which then becomes a set-up change and leaves the player a little in limbo until the brain gets re-trained.

For particle's case he said basically the same as above for the idea of the eye patch. His question was...why doesn't he just get his vision corrected to 20/20 or as near as he can and the brain will automatically do the rest and the cue will be either on or very near to centre-chin. For snooker he also recommended either contacts or LASIK as no matter what type of glasses you use you will still get a distorted picture which could change as the glasses move a fraction of a millimeter and also because the glasses are off the eye, in people who are short-sighted (like me) the image is also smaller due to the distance off the eyeball.

He did mention too, for good visual acuity either hard or gas permeable contacts are best for snooker players.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

Just had an appointment with the University of Waterloo contact lens research centre and wonder of wonders, with correction for astigmatism (sp?) they managed to get my right eye to 20/20 (not sure of the technical rating but I was clearly reading the 5th line of their chart and they also got the left eye to 20/10 but decided to back off on the left to 20/15 to have the eyes more evenly matched. It will be around a week before I get the actual contacts but I'm really interested in trying them out.

I had a good chat with the senior Doc in the place (it's a teaching facility so a lot of Profs around and because of my problem with my cornea they hooked me up with the 'big gun'). He confirmed I was using my left eye as my preferred eye but he said (he plays snooker and was an archer of high standard) that most people will have a preferred eye which the brain uses as its primary image and for sighting along a cue most people would naturally find a spot between the two eyes which would give their brain the truest picture and it's almost never right underneath the preferred eye but rather might slightly favour that eye. He also said there are some that are more even sighted and although they have a preferred eye they may have the cue favouring the non-preferred eye but whichever spot is chosen which feels the best the brain would soon adapt to that picture given enough use (practice).

He also said that since I could see something out of my right eye, even though it was blurry I would normally have a spot somewhere between the two eyes. If I was totally blind in the right eye then I would likely choose a spot right underneath the left eye or very little distance away from it. He said everyone was unique and it totally depended on the strength difference between the two eyes and also one very important point for snooker players here...if your vision starts to change even a little bit it is really much better to get it corrected right away and maintain at least 20/20 in each eye as otherwise you may start altering the alignment between cue and eyes which then becomes a set-up change and leaves the player a little in limbo until the brain gets re-trained.

For particle's case he said basically the same as above for the idea of the eye patch. His question was...why doesn't he just get his vision corrected to 20/20 or as near as he can and the brain will automatically do the rest and the cue will be either on or very near to centre-chin. For snooker he also recommended either contacts or LASIK as no matter what type of glasses you use you will still get a distorted picture which could change as the glasses move a fraction of a millimeter and also because the glasses are off the eye, in people who are short-sighted (like me) the image is also smaller due to the distance off the eyeball.

He did mention too, for good visual acuity either hard or gas permeable contacts are best for snooker players.

Terry

[Particle Physics]

Ok guys. Anyway, check out my video on tsf, 'pot black and white!' A bit of fun.

[alabadi]

It's gone on quite a bit because there are very differing and concrete views on this topic, and a lot of different solutions; it becomes multiplicative. I'm going off to do some more patching..

I don't think there are many and different solutions,its as Terry, Nrage,Vmax and others have said.

the brain is a wonderful machine and will use both eyes to sight, it really doesn't matter where the cue is left, right or centre as long as it is correct for your setup and feels natural. i myself have messed around with this cue under chin and moved it around until i have settled on a position that looks correct to me.

i am left eye dominant however i cue slightly under my right eye, so this cue needs to be under the dominant eye isn't true, i guess you need to find a position that feels natural, rather than trying to force it to be, and as pottr says once you go back to sighting with both eyes all the work you have being doing trying to force even eye sighting will be undone because the brain will start to use the dominant eye for sighting.

i hope you find the correct position for you, good luck

Alabbadi

[Manu147]

Maybe genetic trait was the wrong term i used, he told me that if u asked a child below 4 or 5 to look thru u tube or similar object they will try and use both eyes, above this age this brain will make them choose one, similar i guess to shutting off the non dominant eye when trying to guess whether you can see a thin edge of a red or not.

[pottr]

That sounds somewhat similar to the jargon I was told yesterday.

[Manu147]

I meant whether an optician will make sure you have a dominant eye when correcting your vision in order that the brain can use one against the other to get depth perception.

Hi vmax, according to my optician, only around 2% of the population do not posess what is regarded as a dominant eye,i myself have a optical reading of -o.o25 in both eyes, which in laymans terms in marginally near sighted, but too small to make any difference to need corrected, so both my eyes visually see the same, but according to him, and any test i have tried, my right is the dominant one, which the brain uses to decipher straight line information, this is a genetic trait in humans, with roughly 70% of the population right eye dominant, and the rest left eye dominant,aside from the above mentioned 2%, according to him people who dont
require any kind of corrective lenses, still posess a dominant eye, except in rare cases.

[pottr]

I missed the context you were after, sorry pal.

Was skimming the phone app at the dinner table when I brought it up... next time we're around theirs, I'll ask.

[vmax4steve]

She says the law on sight required for driving is sketchy at best. Shudders to think of all the people she knows are on the road that shouldn't be.

I meant whether an optician will make sure you have a dominant eye when correcting your vision in order that the brain can use one against the other to get depth perception.

[pottr]

Obviously, the not so sound of mind, cannot understand that one removes the patch.

I'm sound of mind to recognise that I didn't need to worry about which I eye I was looking out of to start potting balls.

Particle, how good a player are you? Just asking. Because the annoyance I have with your sighting suggestion is you consistently reiterate the suggestion as a path to improved potting on the snooker table. I am curious as to how far it has taken you?

**Pottr, ask your future dragon in law if this is correct.

She says the law on sight required for driving is sketchy at best. Shudders to think of all the people she knows are on the road that shouldn't be.

I asked about the patch thing and as I don't get it fully myself, I'm not quite sure I got across the goal that PP is trying to achieve.
She did say that whilst you could train your mind to compensate for the loss of an eye, the minute you use both eyes again, your brain will re-compensate and likely undo all of the conscious effort you've put forth.
She said it could be possible to put your mind on a diet and decide to ignore one eye. But again, when you stopped the effort required to do this, the brain would compensate, just like when someone has a weaker eye and they get corrective lenses.

For what it's worth, I had fifteen minutes on my table trying out the 'patch theory'. I think I managed to pot four or five shots out of thirty and each with my right eye. Probably because I'm right handed. I tried to change eyes before my address and after I was down at the table. Zero improvement for me.

In fact, I potted more than triple the amount of balls with my eyes closed alltogether.

This gazumped the dominant eye theory for me as I know for a fact that my left eye is the strongest.
I remain resolute that particle's improvement is through higher frequency of practice.

I will write a fresh article, outlining my experiences for all to read, once I've done say a month of patching or whatever solution I come up with.

Please include a video so we can better understand the theory.

[Particle Physics]

Me neither, it seems the key points have been lost in the noise.

I think everyone would agree that some people have a dominant eye, and some rare individuals are evenly sighted, how many and what percentage might be argued over, but I don't think anyone would say that people don't have a dominant eye.

The Q is, what should a player do about it. The answer is simple, find the position which gives you the real view of things. So, put your cue on the correct line of aim and find a position for your head which makes it look correct to you, end of story.

Everyone will have at least one positions which is correct for them. For someone who is completely blind in one eye, this position will be directly below the good eye. For everyone else it will be somewhere between the two eyes, with some people as far over as to be directly under the dominant eye. What percentage of people end up under the dominant eye is another point of debate, but honestly it's not important to an individual player, they need to find their own correct position.

Some people may be using an "incorrect" position but have trained themselves to compensate for it, the brain is a marvelous machine and can achieve amazing things given enough time and practice.

Trying to force a position which isn't natural will put you in the above camp, unless you can somehow change how your brain/eyes function and that to me sounds very dangerous. For example, I know someone with a lazy eye which wasn't caught/corrected when they were young, but no optician in their right mind would recommend attempting to correct it now. It's not that it's impossible to correct, it's that the process is very difficult and can result in migraine's and other side effects which may be temporary but can actually be permanent. That's not the sort of risk anyone should be taking for a sport, even a pro IMO.

It's gone on quite a bit because there are very differing and concrete views on this topic, and a lot of different solutions; it becomes multiplicative. I'm going off to do some more patching. I will write a fresh article, outlining my experiences for all to read, once I've done say a month of patching or whatever solution I come up with.

[nrage]

I have been following this thread with interset, however i can't believe that it has gone on this long.

Me neither, it seems the key points have been lost in the noise.

I think everyone would agree that some people have a dominant eye, and some rare individuals are evenly sighted, how many and what percentage might be argued over, but I don't think anyone would say that people don't have a dominant eye.

The Q is, what should a player do about it. The answer is simple, find the position which gives you the real view of things. So, put your cue on the correct line of aim and find a position for your head which makes it look correct to you, end of story.

Everyone will have at least one positions which is correct for them. For someone who is completely blind in one eye, this position will be directly below the good eye. For everyone else it will be somewhere between the two eyes, with some people as far over as to be directly under the dominant eye. What percentage of people end up under the dominant eye is another point of debate, but honestly it's not important to an individual player, they need to find their own correct position.

Some people may be using an "incorrect" position but have trained themselves to compensate for it, the brain is a marvelous machine and can achieve amazing things given enough time and practice.

Trying to force a position which isn't natural will put you in the above camp, unless you can somehow change how your brain/eyes function and that to me sounds very dangerous. For example, I know someone with a lazy eye which wasn't caught/corrected when they were young, but no optician in their right mind would recommend attempting to correct it now. It's not that it's impossible to correct, it's that the process is very difficult and can result in migraine's and other side effects which may be temporary but can actually be permanent. That's not the sort of risk anyone should be taking for a sport, even a pro IMO.

[alabadi]

I have been following this thread with interest, however i can't believe that it has gone on this long.

from the first few comments i got all the information i need, i think there have been some extravagent opinions and some are adamant that they are right. i myself trust the coaches here and believe they are only looking out for the wellbeing of us all.

i myself will not post any comments but will post on any improvements that might come my way from what i have learned here.

great post, lots of comments, some weird some very intelligent.....great stuff

Alabbadi

[Manu147]

I can go to the R eye and pot balls. I would just like to cue centre chin. If there's a way of doing it, I'm game.

Of the top 20 or so pros, ali carter and ding are the 2 i can think of that centre sight so to speak, the rest marginally or more extreme favour one eye or another, this is also mirrored again when they use the rest, so this must be where each individual sees his true line, also in the players i have watched this is also true in their stand up position, for instance when mark allen plays a dead sraight blue to the middle pocket, from his stand up position a staight line thru the blue and white would come up thru his body dissecting his left so to speak, he then drops head down straight on same line more or less, therefore he sees the same line that he had when he was standing up, if he went centre chin he would be looking across it, i believe this subconcious of course, so i believe players should
in doubt should let someone take a photo or them when using the rest, so their position down on shot should mirror this, whether it is centre chin or marginally under one eye, the reason i use the rest as an example is this the closest position that mirrors the standind up position, which is were the initial decision should be made. (hope that makes sense)