A video with confusing comments.. seeking clarity

[pottr]

What jrc said.

Just spent ten minutes playing the said shot just incase I was mistaken.
I don't feel I am.

And I know what cheating the pocket is. Any player worth his salt does... I feel insulted

[alabadi]

I think you are not understanding the position of the balls, he is NOT swerving around any ball !!! He says he is able to pot a ball that has no direct path to the pocket because of an obstructing ball, by transferring side onto the object ball which then bends around the obstructing ball and into the pocket

Thanks for clearing that up, JRC still can't see how its possible to put side on the OB, its been documented by many that side doesn't effect the OB, so for side to actually make the OB swerve around an obsticle seems far fetched.

my opinion is that with only a fraction obstruction playing it slow just missing the obstructive ball depending on the nap of the cloth the OB can be pulled in toward the pocket.

Pros use this all the time when playing slow dead weight shots to the centre pocket from just below the black and pink area, aiming for the far jaw pulls the OB into the pocket this is using the nap and not spin transfer.

Alabbadi

[pottr]

I've been doing that too since I was about 14.

I'm talking about a ball into a corner where you can use it to run through onto the black for example.

[throtts]

The only time I play running side is when a red ball is glued the black cushion and I want to achieve a pot in to one of the black pockets.. It without doubt hugs the cushion, thus potting the red..Have not even tried the pot pottr is talking about, I normally try a red in to any other pocket even if its a long one. I will experiment though, pottr.

I have noticed that if one misses the black and it happens to kick back towards you, you can notice the black spinning sometimes, specially under my LS1200 strip lights, but that effect could be from the violent bounce off the jaws / cushions..

Edit;; I also play side ( to take effect off a cushion ) for position on next object ball..

[nrage]

Pottr; you couldn't capture the shot on video could you? I'd be interested to see what's happening. Do you play the shot at a slow, medium or fast pace? If the OB is spinning and this is causing the swerve then it probably needs to be played medium to slow rather than fast, right? And you probably need a little bit of distance between OB and obstructing ball to allow for it to swerve, right? Another factor is the cut angle, are you playing a straight shot, or a cut. A cut will naturally cause a small amount of rotation on the OB I believe.

[pottr]

The only time I play running side is when a red ball is glued the black cushion and I want to achieve a pot in to one of the black pockets.. It without doubt hugs the cushion, thus potting the red..

It's the same principle. With the pot along the cushion, the spin onto the ball is extenuated by the cushion itself.

Have not even tried the pot pottr is talking about, I normally try a red in to any other pocket even if its a long one. I will experiment though, pottr.

I tried it last night again to make sure I hadn't just confused myself. I think the effect is minute but more than measurable. As side takes for the OB off the cushion in the above post it must be the nap in the cloth which causes the same effect for the OB, however diminished it may seem

I have noticed that if one misses the black and it happens to kick back towards you, you can notice the black spinning sometimes, specially under my LS1200 strip lights, but that effect could be from the violent bounce off the jaws / cushions..

Yes. The ball following an impact could potentially spin on any axis. If a spinning body hits a body of near to equal mass it will spin adversely. As in the spinning white, transferring the side to the OB....

... This could be one for Captain PP.... Arrrghhh

Edit;; I also play side ( to take effect off a cushion ) for position on next object ball..

show off x

Pottr; you couldn't capture the shot on video could you?

I will certainly give it a go when I've got some time over the weekend. I have no idea how I could get the camera angle though. I might need someone to help me do it, a job for my boy maybe.

Do you play the shot at a slow, medium or fast pace?

It's almost always a fraction above dead weight and can only really be played as a run/drop through. You can't hit it very hard at all to get the desired effect. The OB doesn't have enough time for the rotation to have an affect.

If the OB is spinning and this is causing the swerve then it probably needs to be played medium to slow rather than fast, right?

As stated above. Correct

And you probably need a little bit of distance between OB and obstructing ball to allow for it to swerve, right? Another factor is the cut angle, are you playing a straight shot, or a cut.

Not so much. Obviously you can't be ramrodded behind the ball but an inch or more and it's possible. I find it's more to do with the distance of the object ball from the pocket to be honest.

A cut will naturally cause a small amount of rotation on the OB I believe.

Exactly right. I always learned the same principle when playing high cuts on the blue to take the natural angle into the pack. Hasn't steered me wrong.

I am not arrogant enough to admit that I could be mistaken on this topic. But I am yet to hear a response which has caused me to dip below 100% confidence that my theory on this is accurate.

I will endeavour to post a video.

[vmax4steve]

To be absolutely sure pottr try those shots along the baulk line with and then against the nap to check that it isn't the effect of the nap pulling a dead weight ball off line into the pocket. I can't see that a cue ball hit gently would carry enough side with enough force to impart any to the object ball.
nrage has posted a couple of videos in the past from 9ball pool that show a minute amount of side can be transferred but the shots are alway hit quite hard and are always full ball contacts not cuts.
The only time I'm aware of side being transferred onto the object ball to any great degree is when the object ball is frozen on a cushion making the contact between the two balls a split second longer than usual allowing enough friction for it to happen.

I have just had a bit of practise and played several shots with side for positional purposes without the cue ball touching any cushion in order to make or miss certain cannons that I either wanted or didn't and also to put the cue ball maybe a couple of inches away from where it would have come to rest naturally without using side.
I do this quite a lot actually, it comes naturally to me and isn't at all difficult once you understand how the cue ball behaves. This is the way the likes of Reardon, Spencer and Alex Higgins used to play and was taught to me by an old bloke who learned to play back in the 60's with crystalate balls and who is also a very good billiards player. Willie Thorne has referred to this many times when commentating and calls it 'helping side'.

[pottr]

Yeah, I get what you mean for helping side. Again, not exactly an obscure term for a decent player, which I consider myself to be.

As I stated earlier, I think it is the nap which helps the side take and transfer. If I play with the side then the ball will drift the opposite direction with the nap.

Also, it's not for positional gain at all this point. Helping side is as you have mentioned just. The shot of I have explained only comes into effect when you are partially unable to pot a ball.

I have just had a bit of practise and played several shots with side for positional purposes without the cue ball touching any cushion in order to make or miss certain cannons that I either wanted or didn't and also to put the cue ball maybe a couple of inches away from where it would have come to rest naturally without using side.

Exactly the same principal as what I have attempted to illustrate.

[pottr]

Oh and the shot's I'm talking about are full ball contacts.

[cazmac1]

It's not confusing it's just complete bollocks.
When he's playing those allegedly straight blacks you can clearly see that the cue ball is below the line on the table that goes through the black spot into the pocket. Jeez he even puts it on then moves it off the line at one point.

SIDE AFFECTS THE PATH OF THE CUE BALL ONLY

When you put side on the cue ball you are effectively playing a swerve shot and judging the immediate throw off line of the cue ball and then the arcing of the cue ball as it travels towards the object ball. This throw and arcing varies with pace, the amount of side used, whether you have played with top, bottom or middle ball side, the speed of the table, the amount of nap on the cloth and which direction the nap is running.

This effect can be used for positional purposes but only when the effects are understood and mastered through years of trial and error.

I'm with you steve, if the black is straight you can not stun up and across for the red unless you nick a bit of the pocket which is very dangerous. If the black is almost straight, but you have a little angle you can use helping side, I use this shot all the time and I think most pros do as well. when the pros are playing around the black they are always using small touches of side.
If the black is dead straight you can only get on and the next red above by either screwing of the cushion in and straight line or by using screw and reverse side.

[scottishplayer]

So, if the object ball doesn't pot, you can play the shot with side and then it will pot!! Amazing! I'll need to try that one.

[vmax4steve]

So, if the object ball doesn't pot, you can play the shot with side and then it will pot!! Amazing! I'll need to try that one.

So far this is only what pottr believes but he has said that he is not 100% certain of it.

What you could do if a ball won't pot because there is a ball very slightly between it and the pocket is to make the cue ball strike it while off the bed of the table, which will then make the object ball bounce and hopefully jump over the part of the ball that is in the way. According to the rules it's a legal shot as long as the cue ball doesn't jump over any part of the ball first struck. Set up such a shot like this, place cue ball and object ball for a straightish shot into the corner pocket, place another ball between the object ball and the pocket about a balls width away from the object ball blocking the path to the pocket by about 5mm. Raise the butt of the cue and strike down above centre of the cue ball making it contact the object ball while in the air and the object ball will bounce over the intervening ball into the pocket.
Practise with differing amounts of power and distance between the balls until you get the shot consistantly.

[CoachGavin]

Pottr. If I have this correct jimmy white plays the shot you are talking about in his 1992 maximum break. About half way through he runs too far for his intended red and plays with side to pot it. My view is that by playing the shot slow with lots of side the white strikes the red thin but then thickens up as the white grips the red allowing the ball to pot. The white doesnt swerve round the intervening ball. Do you agree pottr?

[itsnoteasy]

I dont understand this ,there is only one contact point on an ob that you can hit that is the proper potting angle, you may be able to force an angle with stun a tiny bit but if you play side it doesnt matter what you do you still have to hit the correct contact point unless it swerves in an arc(extreme example) then you are changing the cue balls approach angle and will therefore get a different angle of pot, but its not imparting side onto the ob, its just changing angle of cue ball approach isnt it?