Reliable and fast way of setting up half ball, quarter ball, etc, practice.

[nullsys]

Hi all,
I know there are tons of coaching materials and setups for practice routines, but I just can't seem to find what I'm looking for.

I'm after practising very simple angles: 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 ball, etc.

Does anyone have a reliable and fast way of setting up the cue ball so you can practice each of these?

Eg: Black into corner pockets.

Place the cue ball in straight line to pocket for full ball.

But, to be absolutely certain of the 3/4 ball angle, how far up or down the table do I move the white? For example.

Thanks!

[vmax4steve]

Why would you want to practise this, you will never get these exact angles all the time when playing a frame.
If I were you I would practise potting the black off its spot while playing for position to stay on it for the next shot. This will give you lots of differing angles while knowing that the black has to be hit in the exact same spot all the time, while learning to control the cue ball to stay high on the black.............. all at the same time. Very useful exercise.

[nullsys]

Why would you want to practise this, you will never get these exact angles all the time when playing a frame.
If I were you I would practise potting the black off its spot while playing for position to stay on it for the next shot. This will give you lots of differing angles while knowing that the black has to be hit in the exact same spot all the time, while learning to control the cue ball to stay high on the black.............. all at the same time. Very useful exercise.

There are many resources saying you should practice 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 and full shots over and over. In order to learn the angles off by heart and more importantly, know that the only thing going wrong, is your cue action, not the angle.

PJ Nolan Coaching Guide & training books, Terry Griffiths, and Steve Davis all have material suggesting you should practice these angles for hours.

[Chris Bedford]

Reliable and fast way of setting up half ball, quarter ball, etc, practice.

Nic barrow has similar excersise whet he can tell by the sound if it half ball quarter or three quarter and full ball lol. Easiest way is to set the blue on its spot and line up reds parrallel to the length of the table touching each other replace the red with the white and practise from there each time replacing the red for the white. Difficult to explain but I'm sure someone will be along who's knows how to explain it better. Lol

[nullsys]

Wow, to be able to do it by hearing, that's just amazing.

Here is a version of what I was trying to explain.
Even setting up half this shot would take so long, and I'd probably ruin it in one dodgy hit.
ballcuts.jpg

Any ideas on how I could achieve the same effective angles on black or blue (for example), but quickly so it could be repeated easily?

EDIT
-----
You know, I'm so stupid at almost 1am that if I had just thought on and figured - "Hey, why not set them up by eye, mark their positions with chalk and then just replace them everytime"...I could of saved myself and everyone else time.

Sorry everyone!
Although I hope the image helps someone lol.

[alabadi]

Hi all,
I know there are tons of coaching materials and setups for practice routines, but I just can't seem to find what I'm looking for.

I'm after practising very simple angles: 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 ball, etc.

Does anyone have a reliable and fast way of setting up the cue ball so you can practice each of these?

Eg: Black into corner pockets.

Place the cue ball in straight line to pocket for full ball.

But, to be absolutely certain of the 3/4 ball angle, how far up or down the table do I move the white? For example.

Thanks!

i am sure a lot will tell you don't practice these type of shots because they don't come up often in a real match , however you get people like Steve Davis and top coaches who tell you to practice them, i myself do practice them and can tell you they do appear in matches....ok maybe not to the mm but damn close, if you recognise the angle at least you will have a starting point, thinner thicker...etc.

i had a coach set me a routine up he did it on the Blue however the same works on any colour or position.

what you do put the blue on its spot and then line up a dead straight shot now position a red ball half a ball to the right or left in line with the cueball, this should be 3/4 ball place the next red again half a ball away to the first red and you have 1/2 ball.

you can actually prove the half ball is accurate by replacing it with the cue ball and aim at the edge of the blue use center ball striking not too hard and if hit correctly the blue will land in the center of the pocket.

you can do the same on the black, start with the cueball dead straight then place the next ball high or low half a ball width away but remember because the black pocket is at an angle the position of the balls will be at a similar angle.

you should find videos on youtube i'm sure some where.

Alabbadi

[Particle Physics]

Why would you want to practise this, you will never get these exact angles all the time when playing a frame.
If I were you I would practise potting the black off its spot while playing for position to stay on it for the next shot. This will give you lots of differing angles while knowing that the black has to be hit in the exact same spot all the time, while learning to control the cue ball to stay high on the black.............. all at the same time. Very useful exercise.

Seems to me (as a relative novice) that the contact/reaction angle is from 0 degrees up to 89 degrees, there are many angles to learn that come up in just one frame, not just angles that equate to 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 ball. The danger of practising these 1/4, 1/2, 1/3 ball shots is the mistake of thinking one of these shots is there on the table, when it isn't, and playing the shot as if it is = missed pot. I just think that folk should play the angles in front of them, the mind will bank the angles subconsciously anyway. Playing a proportion of the object ball rather than the angle of the pot seems dangerous. And repeating three shot angles over and over again in practice must be boring no?

[Terry Davidson]

I know some coaches recommend practicing full, 1/2, 3/4 and 1/4 ball cuts but I've always found the difficulty is how do you know you've set up an exact 1/4-ball cut or 3/4-ball cut (the 1/2-ball is a little more simple as the aiming point if always the edge of the object ball.

For my students I recommend practicing playong the pink of it's spot to all 6 pockets but not ever touching by hand the cueball. This exercise can also be done with the blue and of course as vmax recommends on the black but to just 2 pockets. You should learn every possible angle of pot eventually.

I also agree with PP here is you cannot possibly look at an angled pot and say 'that's a 1/4-ball cut' or 'that's a 7/8-ball cut' as there are easily at least 1,000 different angled pots and the only way to learn them all or at least be able to judge the potting angle is to practice all angled pots from every angle, as in a frame of snooker or by potting the black off its spot.

I see the real problem as, for an unexperienced player using this method, when he sees a pot and he figures 'OK, this pot is between 3/4-ball and 1/2-ball somewhere, but how much do I have to aim thicker from 1/2-ball?' It's very difficult to teach this method of determining potting angles too and I've never seen a sure-fire method of doing so.

Terry

[nullsys]

If you look at the diagram I posted, it shows you the angles I mentioned, along with the predicted paths of the white ball.
Lets say for example, you want to practice a 3/4 ball, you take a few shots and are pretty confident with the angle and where the white is going after it's connected with the object ball.
Wouldn't it be useful to know where the white is going on 3/4 balls?
Because right now, without practising 3/4 balls, I have no idea.

Here's what I consider to be the upside to using this method:

1. You know the angle is right, you know where to hit the object ball, so the only thing that can go wrong if your cue action. This allows you analyse your cueing, not second guessing if it was just you guessing the angle is wrong.

2. You can be confident where the white is going on a plain ball shot, so you can then start to add side or screw, to experiment. Again, knowing the angle is right, only your cueing can falter..allowing you to practice cue ball control.

Yes, their are innumerable angles on a ball. You must rely on judgement to correctly guess the angle when it's not set up like I suggested.
But, for beginners, wouldn't it be useful to say "I know what a 3/4 ball looks like, but that angle is between 1/2 and 3/4 ball"?
By knowing what a 3/4 ball looks like, and a 1/2 ball looks like, you will know that some shots are in-between the two, and can make a guess judgement.

You could take it further and then start practising the shots between those angles.

The less variables in cueing for beginners, the easier it is to analyse problems in solo practise, surely?

[NorthWestJunior]

The most effective way I was taught was to stand on the direct line from object ball to desired pocket. Then imagine a white ball touching the object ball at 0 angle or full ball. Then keeping in mind the imaginary white ball, steadily move towards the actual white until you are stood behind the white hitting the imaginary white full ball. If done correctly you should be pretty much on the line of the pot. After some practice you will be able to carry out this method very quickly.

[DandyA]

well I'm going to support nullsys on this one ... whilst every shot is different, being able to recognise shots are approx 3/4 1/2 or 1/4 ball is good in my opinion ...

- firstly the angle the OB takes from the line of aim ... all figures approx ... 3/4 is 15 degrees, 1/2 is 30 degrees and 1/4 is 45 degrees ... I think that is worth knowing ...

- full to 3/4 pots ... you can kill the white, ie keep it near the object ball ... anything thinner and the white ball is going to run ...

- 3/4 pots or around that angle ... gives you (if you have the relevant skills) the maximum ability to put the white where you want using top/bottom/roll/stun and weight ...

- 1/2 ball pots are easy to aim (the edge of the OB) and the path of a rolling white (no stun/screw/top) comes with a cast-iron guarantee - this is why good snooker players play 1/2 ball safeties by preference and billiards players adore 1/2 ball in-offs or losing hazards as they call them ... it doesn't apply just to safeties or in-offs, any shot that is around 1/2 ball, the path of a plain ball rolling white is very predictable whether you hit it thin or thick ...

- 1/4 ball ... I don't know any theory stuff about this but I generally use it to judge if top or bottom will affect the path of the white after it hits the OB ... at about 1/4 or thicker, yes it will if I hit it well ... less than 1/4, I wouldn't bother ...

I'm only an occasional player but that's why I think it's good to recognise 3/4 1/2 1/4 angles

[alabadi]

If

Yes, their are innumerable angles on a ball. You must rely on judgement to correctly guess the angle when it's not set up like I suggested.
But, for beginners, wouldn't it be useful to say "I know what a 3/4 ball looks like, but that angle is between 1/2 and 3/4 ball"?
By knowing what a 3/4 ball looks like, and a 1/2 ball looks like, you will know that some shots are in-between the two, and can make a guess judgement.

I totally agree here, at least you have an idea other than not, and as others have mentioned there are 1000s of angles, yes there probably are however, how many times do we actually hit the object ball 100% at the point of contact that will give us a center pocket pot.

i would say there are possibly 100 contact points that if hit will pocket the OB, from extreme left to extreme right of the pocket, so actually knowing that an angle is pretty close to 3/4 or 1/4 can still be useful. there are margins for error.

OK, for pinpoint position maybe we have to hit the exact point, or pretty damn close, but who on this forum is a top pro seeking advice?...exactly..

the majority are beginners or semi skilled players looking for ways to get better.

Alabbadi

[Particle Physics]

The most effective way I was taught was to stand on the direct line from object ball to desired pocket. Then imagine a white ball touching the object ball at 0 angle or full ball. Then keeping in mind the imaginary white ball, steadily move towards the actual white until you are stood behind the white hitting the imaginary white full ball. If done correctly you should be pretty much on the line of the pot. After some practice you will be able to carry out this method very quickly.

That's a great method, that can be used for every pot. Forgot about that one. I'll try it later. Terry, is this what Hendry was doing by looking at the path of object ball to pocket when feathering? Pro players will occasionally look at the object ball to pocket first, before getting down, if it's a tricky pot. I think there was a player who did it a lot, but I've forgotten who.

[vmax4steve]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11570[/ATTACH]

Good attachment which shows exactly why practising the black off its spot helps you. The angles are all different but the contact point on the black is always the same, focus on this and the angle is irrelevant. No one goes to the table and recognises a shot as being a 67.755 degree angle, they simply see where the contact point is and play the cue ball onto it using the cue.

[nrage]

well I'm going to support nullsys on this one ... whilst every shot is different, being able to recognise shots are approx 3/4 1/2 or 1/4 ball is good in my opinion ...

- firstly the angle the OB takes from the line of aim ... all figures approx ... 3/4 is 15 degrees, 1/2 is 30 degrees and 1/4 is 45 degrees ... I think that is worth knowing ...

DrDave has actually measured and graphed the deflection angles, and this video has the resulting graph showing all cut angles, highlighing 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 ball:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgKD-nqKTlQ
(See from ~0:27s)

Basically, the angle is fairly close to 30 degrees for all shots between 1/4 and 3/4 ball. Of course "fairly" close is typically close enough for pool, but with snooker we need to be more precise, especially over distance.

The consistency of the 30 degree angle on or near to 1/2 ball is why this little billiards shot/bet is easy to make:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vRi3Jih1Lg&feature=plcp
(From ~2:02s..)

- full to 3/4 pots ... you can kill the white, ie keep it near the object ball ... anything thinner and the white ball is going to run ...

- 3/4 pots or around that angle ... gives you (if you have the relevant skills) the maximum ability to put the white where you want using top/bottom/roll/stun and weight ...

In actual fact the closer you get to straight on, the more control you have:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oii0UhnYjCc&feature=plcp
(from ~2:28s..)

You might want to start with video #1 in the sequence, as it describes the terms he uses:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J0I6IgLlo8&feature=plcp

Of course, being actually straight on is the kiss of death for position (just about) so most people will play closer to 1/2 or 3/4 ball, as you mention.

- 1/2 ball pots are easy to aim (the edge of the OB) and the path of a rolling white (no stun/screw/top) comes with a cast-iron guarantee - this is why good snooker players play 1/2 ball safeties by preference and billiards players adore 1/2 ball in-offs or losing hazards as they call them ... it doesn't apply just to safeties or in-offs, any shot that is around 1/2 ball, the path of a plain ball rolling white is very predictable whether you hit it thin or thick ...

Yep, 1/2 ball hit is a very interesting angle/situation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zysbWeI2_ZE&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vRi3Jih1Lg&feature=plcp

- 1/4 ball ... I don't know any theory stuff about this but I generally use it to judge if top or bottom will affect the path of the white after it hits the OB ... at about 1/4 or thicker, yes it will if I hit it well ... less than 1/4, I wouldn't bother ...

I'm only an occasional player but that's why I think it's good to recognise 3/4 1/2 1/4 angles

I think it's useful, but I found that focusing on learning these was less effective than practicing as vmax mentioned in his first reply. It is useful if you can recognise a 1/2 ball angle for all the reasons you have above, and slightly less so for 1/4 and 3/4. It's more useful to implicitly "know" the angle through hours and hours of practice, it's something you cannot really fast-track, though focusing on the 1/2, 1/4 and 3/4 angles does help to some degree.